Sunday Times - new schools legal case

I'm not sure what a boys uniform is in primary or secondary, girls are usually allowed to wear trousers and the school jumper. I am very gc although I do use preferred pronouns and names, only if I have been assured by the safeguarding lead parents are aware. Our school recently reminded teachers to use the name on the register not what friends are using, and slt change if required.
It seems wrong the school wouldn't let other parents know ss you cannot treat a female girl as a boy for eg pshe and pe. Yr4 is very very young. I do agree it is harmful and social transition is no way back, how can you say oh actually I'm not trans after those around you have affirmed you, it may disappoint them, they only just came round etc...
So I guess I hope she wins although she is a bit extreme.

Right, so if the parents register that he is now to be called Matilda, teachers should respect their wishes?

I think yes, as long as everyone is clear that he is a boy named Matilda.

Right, so if the parents register that he is now to be called Matilda, teachers should respect their wishes?

If John wants his classmates to call him Matilda, he can crack on. But he should not get to demand that his teachers call him anything other than the name his parents registered him under.

Right, so it classes a name change as social transition. You appear to disagree!

The Church of England has completely lost the plot. They can in no way be called Christian anymore if they are supporting/tolerating an ideology that is directly against orthodox Christianity and potentially seriously harming ALL the children in their care by lying about material biological reality. Is there no low they won’t sink to?

I disagree with you and that article, but each to their own.

IIRC it referred to name changes demanded by the pupils, sometimes kept secret from the parents by staff.

Using preferred pronouns is not a neutral act. You're telling the children that they have the power to compel your speech, to make you lie.

Pronouns are Rohypnol.

Does anyone know what the Cass review classed as social transition then, if not name change and wearing clothes traditionally worn by the opposite sex.

Of course he's making a statement, but the response should be neutral tolerance, rather than celebration and fuss.

I work in a single sex (girls) secondary school, but we have some trans boys who we use male pronouns for. But the school is a single sex school so I doubt they will ever admit trans girls who are biologically male.

I think that's a pretty clear line and i agree with it; we will call young people the names and pronouns they want, but we operate as a single sex female space so it would be inappropriate for someone who is biologically male to attend the school.

Respecting people's pronouns, whatever I think, for me is not difficult. Allowing people to change their names, hairstyles, uniform too, which I think the most ardently GC people agree on.

I know a psychiatrist socially and he was saying that in his experience it is more damaging to refuse to accept people who are presenting as trans, even if you personally believe they are wrong. I don't know how true that is, and I can see a few opinions on here which say exactly the opposite. Fair enough if you think it is unfair on the rest of the class. I work in a girls' secondary, so it is clear to everyone that the trans boys there were girls when they started school, and they are older so it is probably a little different.

My school has two uniforms, one skirt, one trousers. They are not sex assigned.

No boys wear the skirt uniform.

No problem with boys wearing the skirt, but to pretend that a boy wearing a skirt isn't realistically making a statement of some kind is futile.

Why shouldn't a boy wear a skirt?

Yes, I see what you mean. But to not permit him to do this would be forcing a boy to conform to masculine gender stereotypes, while at the same time saying "Gender stereotypes do not define your sex".

So what?

I've known girls called Sam, Charlie, Giles, Stevie.

Yes, but there is a difference between a girl being called Sam, and a boy who is called John changing his name to Matilda and at the same time starting wearing a skirt.

I think some would definitely class that as a social transition.

also, the key question here is whether pronouns refer to sex or gender. This needs to be asked openly more often I think.

I have found myself thinking a lot recently that banning skirts in schools and moving to a unisex uniform would solve quite a lot of problems, this being one of them...

I notice the Sunday Times uses the wording ‘an eight-year-old schoolgirl’, which is refreshingly clear.

If this little girl is 8 already, I wonder what the school will do about puberty discussions. Most primary schools separate the sexes for at least part of that talk. This child obviously needs the information on what happens to girls, not boys, at puberty.

I don't know, but I suspect that some of the arguments will be that the school is forcing a Christian teacher to lie, which is against her faith.

Calling a child by a different name is one thing, but making an adult refer to a female child as "he'" or a male child as "she" is compelling them to tell a lie.

From the article:

'Materials provided by the local council, including some provided by Stonewall, told staff that 80 per cent of transgender children realise they are transgender before they leave primary school, and that the average age of “self-realisation” takes place at five.'

The average age is five?

Presumably they don't get an indication of 'self-realisation' from newborn babies. So, the age range is, what three to seven, with the average being five. This cannot be right.

So what?

I've known girls called Sam, Charlie, Giles, Stevie.

Hilary and Lesley used to be considered boys' names.

Should French Michel change his name to Michael when he comes to England?

Names, like clothes, may give societal clues to a person's sex, but they do not define sex any more than clothes do.

But Matilda is a girl's name?

Pronouns, and pretending in any way that John is a girl.

Until the 80s many schools with uniforms would not allow girls to wear trousers in school. Clothes do not define your sex.

I think some would class allowing John to call himself Matilda and wear a skirt as 'social transitioning'? Or would allowing John to switch pronouns be a key red line?