Page 2 | More empathy for 'transmen' than 'transwomen'?

Yaissa · 2022-10-14T16:43:22+00:00

I can't think of anywhere else I could muse this over. I am staunchly GC. I believe in bio sex, not gender. I've known several TW over the years and they pushed me over the edge, so to speak, into GC territory (I used to be a trans ally until I observed their behaviour first hand) So my daughter has a new friend. She talks about him all the time. Not met him. Another mum today told me he is trans (bio female) I immediately felt a mix of emotions from concern (my daughter was influenced heavily a few years ago by a Non binary teacher and questioned her gender, thankfully it was a phase) and then relief that this 'boy' who is older than her and talked about so much is actually just a girl. I started to think about how my daughter felt when she got dragged into that was of feeling. She's autistic, feels out of place, uncomfortable in her body, going through puberty, unwanted attention from men... She wanted to escape the burden of womanhood. I immediately felt sympathy for her new friend. And it made me think, how would I feel if her new friend was a transgirl (bio male). I'd be angry that this young boy was trying to infiltrate my daughters spaces. Then I realised why. Because a transgirl isn't a girl and a trans boy is still a girl. My sympathies lie with bio females, full stop. It seems like young girls wnat to be trans because they want to escape the awful realities of being a girl. And men want to be trans to fulfil the fantasies they have around womanhood.

Yaissa · 14/10/2022 23:41

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ScaryFaces · 14/10/2022 23:20

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 14/10/2022 19:15

I don't think it's empathy.
It just comes across as patronising and infantalising as hell, which is the way it always comes across when trans men are spoken about on here /in "GC" terms .
Painting them as a victim, wanting to opt out of womanhood etc - that's just coming across as putting your issues ( general you) on them when you have no idea what it's like to be trans
Neither do I as I'm not, but I can see outside of me and know not everyone is the same.
I was a tomboy when growing up too, absolutely hated anything "girly" but knew I always was one.
So being trans clearly isn't the same and there's more to it.

Absolutely this and I'm glad someone else said it.

The GC view of trans men is infantiling and patronising and more than a little sexist - a feminist movement absolutely convinced that female-born people don't know their own minds and bodies and are in need of protection from their own choices, are fragile, easily manipulated, vulnerable to outside influence, and should be denied bodily autonomy in case they make a decision we don't like.

JoodyBlue · 14/10/2022 20:08

WarriorN · 14/10/2022 18:03

I think many of us feel this way as we have experienced so many of the driving forces behind what drives the majority of females to transition.

I would say that the very few young boys who've wanted to be a girl have been driven to it through a basic desire to play, wear and do the things/ colours not stereotypically associated with boys. They learnt that it was possible to "change sex" rather than those around them just saying yes, you can, and be a boy. It's socially much less acceptable though for boys to do this in the way it is for young girls (eg wear skirts to school. Girls can easily wear trousers.)

As they get older, yes it's more likely to be fantasy related.

I heard another potential stimulus recently. It is the argument that masculinity is described as toxic so often, that sensitive boys (and there are many) not wanting to become part of that ilk, instead choose to identify with the oppressed rather than become the oppressor. It made sense to me. When talking about sensitive males. It points again to the completely irresponsible lack of guideance by schools and educators. In short, the stereotypes are doing the educating.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 14/10/2022 19:38

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 14/10/2022 19:15

I don't think it's empathy.
It just comes across as patronising and infantalising as hell, which is the way it always comes across when trans men are spoken about on here /in "GC" terms .
Painting them as a victim, wanting to opt out of womanhood etc - that's just coming across as putting your issues ( general you) on them when you have no idea what it's like to be trans
Neither do I as I'm not, but I can see outside of me and know not everyone is the same.
I was a tomboy when growing up too, absolutely hated anything "girly" but knew I always was one.
So being trans clearly isn't the same and there's more to it.

I agree. It is patronising and infantilising and very much putting posters general issues about what they dislike about being women.

I'm not big on sisterhood but I don't feel particularly empathetic to women who decide they aren't women. Fine- up to them but they aren't my concern.

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 14/10/2022 19:15

I don't think it's empathy.
It just comes across as patronising and infantalising as hell, which is the way it always comes across when trans men are spoken about on here /in "GC" terms .
Painting them as a victim, wanting to opt out of womanhood etc - that's just coming across as putting your issues ( general you) on them when you have no idea what it's like to be trans
Neither do I as I'm not, but I can see outside of me and know not everyone is the same.
I was a tomboy when growing up too, absolutely hated anything "girly" but knew I always was one.
So being trans clearly isn't the same and there's more to it.

Original poster

Yaissa · 14/10/2022 18:30

KangarooKenny · 14/10/2022 18:05

I’ve wondered for some time if they are trying to hide from male advances.
I remember walking past a group of men, hoping they wouldn’t whistle or shout, being nervous.

As a child I was introverted, a tomboy, questioning my sexuality, scared of men/boys, in an abusive situation at home, looking for a place in the world... I really think I would have been sucked into the trans thing if I was a teen today.

OP posts:

Original poster

Yaissa · 14/10/2022 18:28

WarriorN · 14/10/2022 18:03

I think many of us feel this way as we have experienced so many of the driving forces behind what drives the majority of females to transition.

I would say that the very few young boys who've wanted to be a girl have been driven to it through a basic desire to play, wear and do the things/ colours not stereotypically associated with boys. They learnt that it was possible to "change sex" rather than those around them just saying yes, you can, and be a boy. It's socially much less acceptable though for boys to do this in the way it is for young girls (eg wear skirts to school. Girls can easily wear trousers.)

As they get older, yes it's more likely to be fantasy related.

Yes. I see that too. Its the case with a FOTF, young boy (mid teens) been very effeminate since childhood and is now trans. Maybe it feels easier for him to be trans than gay.

OP posts:

KangarooKenny · 14/10/2022 18:05

I’ve wondered for some time if they are trying to hide from male advances.
I remember walking past a group of men, hoping they wouldn’t whistle or shout, being nervous.

WarriorN · 14/10/2022 18:03

I think many of us feel this way as we have experienced so many of the driving forces behind what drives the majority of females to transition.

I would say that the very few young boys who've wanted to be a girl have been driven to it through a basic desire to play, wear and do the things/ colours not stereotypically associated with boys. They learnt that it was possible to "change sex" rather than those around them just saying yes, you can, and be a boy. It's socially much less acceptable though for boys to do this in the way it is for young girls (eg wear skirts to school. Girls can easily wear trousers.)

As they get older, yes it's more likely to be fantasy related.