Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Chimps

57 replies

katmeouws · 14/10/2022 13:44

I was reading an article that scientists had discovered transgender chimps. Is that possible? I had heard of gay dogs, but not trans chimps.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/10/2022 17:37

If he also likes girl dogs then he’s bi. Or maybe hetero trans-femme.

What if he jumps the sofa? Asking for a friend.

TheBiologyStupid · 14/10/2022 17:32

IcakethereforeIam · 14/10/2022 16:55

TG Tips!

😂

Kanaloa · 14/10/2022 17:31

waterwitch · 14/10/2022 17:25

My male dog mounts other male dogs. Does that make him gay - or just annoyingly dominant/alpha. NB, the girls love him & vice versa!

If he also likes girl dogs then he’s bi. Or maybe hetero trans-femme.

He might also just be a bit stupid, given that my sil dog tries to hump DH quite frequently despite them being the same sex and different species.

waterwitch · 14/10/2022 17:25

My male dog mounts other male dogs. Does that make him gay - or just annoyingly dominant/alpha. NB, the girls love him & vice versa!

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 14/10/2022 16:57

Toseland · 14/10/2022 14:04

I saw this gaslightling on a BBC facebook post the other day, i'll try to find it... they could tell which chimps were female because they picked up and cared for the soft toys.

Oh FFS, my dog cares very well for his soft toy rabbit and even takes it on walks. Does that make him a girl dog?

IcakethereforeIam · 14/10/2022 16:55

impressivelycunty · 14/10/2022 14:13

PG Tips have got a lot to answer for.

TG Tips!

NitroNine · 14/10/2022 15:34

There’s an alarming amount of it about it.

Guardian article (April 2022) about [primatologist] Frans de Waal’s book Different: What Apes Can Teach Us About Gender.

Sapiens (2018) - in fairness a quite rigorous look at whether chimps & bonobos could have gender identities; with a not-unreasonable conclusion (spoilers!)

Somehow this November 2015 research paper published by the Royal Society - Primate archaeology reveals cultural transmission in wild chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes verus) - did not centre the poor trans chimps. Too busy focusing on the female chimps’ behaviour. Bet the researchers didn’t even bother to tell any of them they were valid. Worse than poachers.

In 2011 Scientific American were all about explaining female chimps are custodians, curators & transmitters of chimp culture. I say nothing re: males of any species being intolerable oiks 🤨

I think this particular nonsense comes from the 2008 article in the journal Hormones and Behaviour: entitled Sex differences in rhesus monkey toy preferences parallel those of children though.
People (well, National Geographic) then got very excited about wild chimps exhibiting those same behaviours in 2010.

Other people have built on the research, even if only in a very limited fashion eg the BBC trying it for themselves for “Horizon”. (With primates at Woburn; am not saying BBC is full of monkeys who spend their days twiddling their tails & playing with toys.)

Bonobos might be TERFs 🤔 - another 2022 interview with De Waal. Not what he says, but from the knowledge we have of bonobos, it seems highly likely that they would not recognise/understand TW to be women. No welcoming fruit, etc.

Anyway, yes, oceans of more interesting things to look at & consider but naturally people seize on the one - dubious - interpretation of a bit of research that was itself all about pandering to a trend.

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/10/2022 15:08

They played with soft toys? What kind of regressive, bullshit, sexist fuckery is this?

Primates have incredibly complex social groups. With all sorts of roles that change over time. None of which involve soft toys FFS.

Georgeskitchen · 14/10/2022 15:06

REP22 · 14/10/2022 14:57

Not long before someone claims to have a dog that self-identifies as a cat...

Not as crazy as you might think 😏 I had a cat who thought he was a dog 🤣🤣

ErrolTheDragon · 14/10/2022 15:00

Cailleach1 · 14/10/2022 14:17

First thought is that they aren't experimenting on chimps - surgically or chemically for ideological purposes. But then I thought they are doing it to children, so think those sort of ethics cannot be presumed.

Experiments on animals in general, and primates in particular, are subject to rigorous ethical scrutiny (in western countries at any rate).

If only the same criteria were applied to humans.

Johnnysgirl · 14/10/2022 14:57

donquixotedelamancha · 14/10/2022 13:48

The scientists or the chimps?

I'm not sure there is much distinction with this sort of 'science'.

😂

REP22 · 14/10/2022 14:57

Not long before someone claims to have a dog that self-identifies as a cat...

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 14/10/2022 14:56

Toseland · 14/10/2022 14:04

I saw this gaslightling on a BBC facebook post the other day, i'll try to find it... they could tell which chimps were female because they picked up and cared for the soft toys.

Is every woman who has ever picked up a screwdriver trans?

And if she sometimes picks up a screwdriver and sometimes picks up a baby, she's gender fluid?

Good god, what if she's holding one with each hand?!!

DialSquare · 14/10/2022 14:44

impressivelycunty · 14/10/2022 14:13

PG Tips have got a lot to answer for.

This was my first thought too!

nilsmousehammer · 14/10/2022 14:41

Toseland · 14/10/2022 14:04

I saw this gaslightling on a BBC facebook post the other day, i'll try to find it... they could tell which chimps were female because they picked up and cared for the soft toys.

Oh for fucks sake.

Who's going to go around all the primary schools and nurseries and tell the male staff that they've been re declared female based on some brief and stupid stereotyping?

And explain to the TW not caring for everyone else and sucking up the shit end of gender stereotyping that they are actually male because it's performance of stereotype and not appearance or inner sense of...

you know what, I seriously can't be buggered to try and make sense of it any more.

Georgeskitchen · 14/10/2022 14:23

Toseland · 14/10/2022 14:04

I saw this gaslightling on a BBC facebook post the other day, i'll try to find it... they could tell which chimps were female because they picked up and cared for the soft toys.

Are they sure it wasn't because they had vaginas?

Cailleach1 · 14/10/2022 14:18

Insert I hope that they aren't experimenting.

Cailleach1 · 14/10/2022 14:17

First thought is that they aren't experimenting on chimps - surgically or chemically for ideological purposes. But then I thought they are doing it to children, so think those sort of ethics cannot be presumed.

TheKeatingFive · 14/10/2022 14:17

More utter bollocks by the sounds of it

OldCrone · 14/10/2022 14:16

they could tell which chimps were female because they picked up and cared for the soft toys.

That sounds very similar to the idea of trans babies.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4652020-news-article-boston-childrens-hospital-claim-babies-know-they-are-trans-in-the-womb

But I thought the current line was that being trans is nothing to do with stereotypes, and just about a feeling that someone has in their head, that can't be objectively defined in any way.

So how do the scientists know what the chimps are thinking?

impressivelycunty · 14/10/2022 14:13

PG Tips have got a lot to answer for.

Toseland · 14/10/2022 14:04

I saw this gaslightling on a BBC facebook post the other day, i'll try to find it... they could tell which chimps were female because they picked up and cared for the soft toys.

PriOn1 · 14/10/2022 14:01

This is where we end up when “transitioning” is not an action, but rather some theoretically unprovable mental state with no discernible definition.

Kanaloa · 14/10/2022 13:59

Could you link the article? I'll go out on a limb and presume it isn't about trans chimps at all but is in fact some study of sex based behaviour in animals or something of the sort. It sounds interesting to read though.

CountZacular · 14/10/2022 13:58

Chimps and TRAs have a similar temperament…

Swipe left for the next trending thread