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Original poster

What male only spaces are trans men fighting for the right to access?

64 replies

onaslant · 14/10/2022 00:24

There's so much about TW and toilets and prisons and what have you.
I am curious to know any/all areas in which Trans Men have fought to enter a male space.
The only example I can think of for now is Freddy (seahorse) - a trans man who gave birth - wanting to be listed as a male on the birth certificate (this was refused).
Are there documents cases of Trans Men fighting for access to male toilets, or being refused access to male toilets.
Trans men fighting for access to male dressing rooms and male prisons.
Male only gentelmen's clubs?
Boys schools, boys sports teams, male high profile sporting events
trans men using their new gender identity to assault children/women
Trans men in the miliary
Trans men arguing for higher pay
Genuinely curious to know all examples you can think of (if any)
Also can you think of areas where trans men are still disadvantaged.eg. I understand that a trans man can't inherit if the inheritance is due to go to the first born son (the natal son wins out). This hasn't been challenged in court yet as there aren't enough young trans aristocrats knocking around.
Any examples - or pointing me to an earlier thread on this subject - much appreciated.
I feel we are only hearing the trans women's voices and cries for access..

OP posts:
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CircleofWillis · 14/10/2022 06:22

I remember reading about trans men meeting lots of resistance on Grindr and other gay dating apps but could only find this article from 2017.

www.thedailybeast.com/grindrs-trans-dating-problem?ref=scroll

MrSand · 14/10/2022 05:23

There are some female masons (transmen). I have no idea what their members think about it. As to illogicality, this is what the masons say about their policy:

Equality law impacts the way we operate in two main areas in relation to gender reassignment. First, admission. Lodges under UGLE admit men and only men. Now we need to be precise about what we mean by a man. We must use the legal definition: somebody born a man but also someone whose birth certificate states ‘female’ but has since undergone the legal process of changing gender. If a new member was born female but has changed gender, he is as eligible as any other man, providing he meets the other requirements.

The second area is retention. Equality law allows bodies like the Women’s Institute and Freemasons’ Lodges to discriminate on gender at the point of admission, but it doesn’t allow them to discriminate after entry. That means a Freemason who becomes a woman is entitled to remain a member of her existing lodge(s).

MangyInseam · 14/10/2022 02:16

Walkden · 14/10/2022 02:06

"They would get told to fuck right off by men because men don't have to put up the invasion of their spaces."

Doubt that tbh. Most men for example probably wouldn't care about transmen using their toilets tbh. Hell, women ' invade" men's spaces all the time if the queue to the ladies is too long

I think that's part of the reason there has been less obvious controversy.

Things like prisons, transmen are not trying to go there.

Toilets, some do, and men may not like it but are not likely to complain even so. They don't feel directly threatened by it.

Gay cubs, that seems to bother some. Though maybe not all, after all Buck Angel's main fanbase is gay men.

Walkden · 14/10/2022 02:06

"They would get told to fuck right off by men because men don't have to put up the invasion of their spaces."

Doubt that tbh. Most men for example probably wouldn't care about transmen using their toilets tbh. Hell, women ' invade" men's spaces all the time if the queue to the ladies is too long

ReeseWitherfork · 14/10/2022 01:35

onaslant · 14/10/2022 00:33

To be fair, so far single sex schools have largely held out re admissions. My own old girls school does not allow trans girls to apply but does acknowledge that existing girls in the school might wish to identify as boys and will respect that.

Are there actual cases where trans men have asked to go into male only saunas and private clubs? Any references? I'll have a google.

Show quote history

The school thing make senses. I think trans people should be supported in an appropriate way, whatever that looks like for their individual circumstances, but that ultimately their “rights” come back to their sex. I have no issues with a transman who passes as a man being in a female changing rooms for example. I understand this might make some people feel uncomfortable but that discomfort doesn’t actually make that person dangerous (statistically speaking when we talk about men and violent crime). Whereas sending a transman into a male changing room could actually be dangerous for them.

There is a space to support trans people within (intersectional) feminism - and the people we need to support are transmen.

Sorry, middle of the night ramblings from a sleep deprived mother…

jewishmum · 14/10/2022 01:33

Probably like a parent group for dads
Assuming they gave birth to the baby and are the mother.

I know of a TM convert who had a drop of blood taken from her genitals as the symbolic of a circumcision.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 14/10/2022 01:23

They would get told to fuck right off by men because men don't have to put up the invasion of their spaces.

Funny how their sex matters still eh.

MangyInseam · 14/10/2022 01:20

Well I have seen transmen in gay men's choirs. Schools for sure. There are cases in the military in some countries. Though most have women in the military anyway. I know of transmen who use male toilets.

Original poster
onaslant · 14/10/2022 01:04

Sauna: www.attitude.co.uk/news/world/london-gay-sauna-kicks-out-trans-man-for-not-having-a-penis-297475/

The masons allow male members to stay on if they transition to women BUT also now also trans men to join. This is completely illogical!
I think the push for this was the trans woman wanting to stay on n the mass

`in the US trans women would have to sign up to be drafted - but trans men are given a pass! Curious to know the rationale.

parenthood is equal - a person's gender change does not affect their status as mother or father (why not?)

Primogeniture - if lady hoo ha becomes lord hoo they are still a man when it comes to inerhiting titles etc (this favours men).

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 14/10/2022 00:37

Are there actual cases where trans men have asked to go into male only saunas and private clubs? Any references? I'll have a google.

There was a case quite a few years ago, might have been a gym - sorry I can't remember the details or whether they were allowed in or not.

Original poster
onaslant · 14/10/2022 00:33

Changechangychange · 14/10/2022 00:28

Off the top of my head: gay male-only saunas. Private members’ clubs. Golf clubs. I’m sure a trans boy applied to Eton or somewhere - definitely a boy-only boarding school. Don’t think they were successful.

To be fair, so far single sex schools have largely held out re admissions. My own old girls school does not allow trans girls to apply but does acknowledge that existing girls in the school might wish to identify as boys and will respect that.

Are there actual cases where trans men have asked to go into male only saunas and private clubs? Any references? I'll have a google.

OP posts:
Sparklybutold · 14/10/2022 00:30

Ha literally cross posted thinking on the same subject!

Changechangychange · 14/10/2022 00:28

Off the top of my head: gay male-only saunas. Private members’ clubs. Golf clubs. I’m sure a trans boy applied to Eton or somewhere - definitely a boy-only boarding school. Don’t think they were successful.

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