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Original poster

Oxford University covid research

58 replies

Scrabble · 13/10/2022 20:07

So I've spent maybe a couple of years filling in occasional questionnaires from Oxford University. Fairly long ones. About how I and my family are affected by Covid. A lot of the questions are pretty intrusive - eg asking about feelings of depression and worthlessness, whether your children are unpopular or liars and thieves, relationship and money questions, etc. I've done this (despite often not wanting to) over and over again in the interests of research. With some faith that as carried out by prestigious Oxford University they might find out something useful and make good use of it.
Received yet another questionnaire the other day, and this time they required me to tell them what my gender is. The choice was: male / female / other / prefer not to say. There was no sex question. I know that on this board male and female are supposed to relate to sex, but here they were expressly stated to be genders.
I considered not answering the questionnaire, but in the end went for female. But surely sex is very important in the context of Covid and families? And they were clearly conflating sex and gender. I feel as though the whole thing has been a waste of time, and as though I've been cheated into thinking that these were reasonable, academic people with an interest in finding out the truth. So much for fucking Oxford.

OP posts:
BomboChipolata · 09/11/2022 08:42

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/11/2022 08:22

Ah, it’s shroegingers trans people again innit?

only a handful of women get raped when they’re imprisoned with men role playing as women, no need to change anything

there’s only a handful of trans people, but nevertheless the whole of society should pretend that sex isn’t real and gender is relevant in any way to the questionnaire the OP was completing, because….reasons

Show quote history

So, I’m assuming you’re saying it wouldn’t make much of a difference. 99% of people filling in the form would write their sex and the impact would be pretty minimal.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/11/2022 08:22

BomboChipolata · 09/11/2022 05:23

Good you got a reply.

In practice for a large scale survey does it really matter?

Let’s take you survey 10,000 people, how much of a impact are the handful of transgender people going to have on the survey results?

Ah, it’s shroegingers trans people again innit?

only a handful of women get raped when they’re imprisoned with men role playing as women, no need to change anything

there’s only a handful of trans people, but nevertheless the whole of society should pretend that sex isn’t real and gender is relevant in any way to the questionnaire the OP was completing, because….reasons

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/11/2022 07:33

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jgw1 · 09/11/2022 06:30

orbitalcrisis · 14/10/2022 17:21

@Scrabble So which box should those who are intersex tick? I keep seeing on here that women don't have penises they have vaginas but what about people who have both, if they have to have one or the other they clearly must be neither!

@orbitalcrisis they must be ignored in the interests of obtaining purity.

SierraSapphire · 09/11/2022 06:23

I answered a survey about gynaecological cancers that asked the question about gender not sex FFS. What could be more important than sex In determining whether you're going to get a gynaecological cancer? They had non-binary as an answer choice but no way to tell what sex non-binary. I wrote a critical paragraph in one of the answer boxes at the end. There's a lot of "people with..." terminology in the literature too, which is fucking annoying when you're worrying about dying from something only women can get (I don't think I'm in danger of dying quite yet, hopefully cured, but still...).

BomboChipolata · 09/11/2022 05:23

Good you got a reply.

In practice for a large scale survey does it really matter?

Let’s take you survey 10,000 people, how much of a impact are the handful of transgender people going to have on the survey results?

Original poster
Scrabble · 08/11/2022 19:12

I've had some correspondence with the survey people, further to my complaint. Their current position, having supposedly considered what I've said, is:

  1. They will in future if asking about sex provide the options of "male, female or intersex". I have pointed out to them that "intersex" is not in fact a 3rd sex. They referred to "sex at birth". I have pointed out that that term makes no sense, since people don't change sex after birth.

  2. They say that when asking in the survey about whether people are "male, female or other" they were in fact asking about gender, but should have phrased it in such a way that it wouldn't be mistaken for a question about sex. They say that their interest is in gender, not sex, because they want to find out about people's psychological and social experiences of the Covid pandemic, not people's medical experiences. I have pointed out that stating or believing that one is a woman when one is a man doesn't mean that one then takes on the psychology of a woman. And that transwomen rarely pass as women and are unlikely to be women "socially" either. Also because they don't experience eg. childbirth or menopause, which affects how women are treated socially.

  3. They say that they will take the advice of their Equality and Diversity team on how to ask people about "gender". I can imagine where their E and D team are likely to get their approach from.

Despite their acknowledging that there is a difference between sex and gender, they come across to me as having no committed interest in the actual science / effects of Covid on people, but rather to be putting whatever is the currently acceptable ideology at the forefront of their concerns. They will believe what they are told to believe by their E and D team and will conduct their research accordingly.

OP posts:
NumberTheory · 14/10/2022 17:44

orbitalcrisis · 14/10/2022 17:21

@Scrabble So which box should those who are intersex tick? I keep seeing on here that women don't have penises they have vaginas but what about people who have both, if they have to have one or the other they clearly must be neither!

People who have DSD, at least in the UK where there is universal health care of relatively high standard, will have many different presentations (though none will have both a complete vagina and a complete penis) and should know, through discussion with their doctors, what sex they are from a biological perspective.

WalkthisWayUK · 14/10/2022 17:33

And interestingly those with ‘intersex’ want nothing to do with the gender politics and are not calling for forms to include intersex.

WalkthisWayUK · 14/10/2022 17:32

Those with ‘intersex’ are a) extremely rare and b) biologically one sex

orbitalcrisis · 14/10/2022 17:21

@Scrabble So which box should those who are intersex tick? I keep seeing on here that women don't have penises they have vaginas but what about people who have both, if they have to have one or the other they clearly must be neither!

WalkthisWayUK · 14/10/2022 17:18

Just to say I am in the world of research and it has been well and truly ‘woked’ out of a lot of scientific rigour. Gender is frequently used instead of sex, which is not correct and misleading. I’ve been answering questions on disability research for a while and most of it from ‘best’ universities, who are increasingly ‘biasing’ questions to lead from ideologies, and not lead from investigation e.g. ‘positive’ disabled questions only and very few about negative aspects, if at all. I find myself having to increasingly put comments in the box about how I don’t see questions on my demographic (sex=female) or questions that I can answer without it giving a misleading view (eg why are interventions for disability harmful… er… are they harmful? What are you talking about?)

It is quite depressing. Research and that is including Oxford are as terrified as anyone else of the twitter mob, and some research has been cancelled or stopped if they do not conform to certain online concerns or ideologies. There is engaging with those you are researching, and being ethical and sensitive, but this is something else.

bingbummy · 14/10/2022 17:10

Scientific research is highly politicised, and very profit-driven. You can't trust things on face value because of this. Experts and scientists can be bought and paid for by the media, an are often.

Sorry you spent this long believing we live in a high trust society and that corruption is sporadic rather than endemic.

GCMM · 14/10/2022 16:31

Do complain. I did today with another organisation who gave the options as:
Male
Female
Other
Prefer not to say

If they are going to down this route of asking for gender identity instead of sex, they should include an option of 'None'. The 'prefer not to say' option implies you do have a gender identity, but you don't want to declare it. They should allow people to say they don't have a gender identity.

FictionalCharacter · 14/10/2022 16:19

A couple of years ago I listened to a public lecture on Covid research. The different effects of Covid on men and women were mentioned. An audience member asked if the statistics presented were referring to sex or gender. The professor giving the talk said gender, and then said the Dept of Health only record gender, not “birth sex”. I was surprised to say the least.
If medical research is genuinely recording self declared gender and not sex, we really do have a problem.

Original poster
Scrabble · 14/10/2022 15:54

orbitalcrisis · 14/10/2022 14:54

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen Intersex...? It occurs as often as red hair so 1-2% of the population.

Intersex isn't a different sex!

OP posts:
TheDogsMother · 14/10/2022 14:58

I filled out a survey for the ONS the other day (not Covid related) and I was very heartened to see the question 'What sex are you ? Male or Female'. That's it, nothing else.

orbitalcrisis · 14/10/2022 14:54

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen Intersex...? It occurs as often as red hair so 1-2% of the population.

Original poster
Scrabble · 14/10/2022 14:29

I've submitted a full complaint. Angry and depressed. What kind of society are we becoming, when we can't trust or rely on any of our institutions?

OP posts:
Original poster
Scrabble · 14/10/2022 14:06

I've found an email. These are the people: The Co-SPACE team
Departments of Experimental Psychology and Psychiatry
University of Oxford, UK
Data from the survey is being passed to policy makers and professionals working with families and young people to help them know how best to support families. The findings have also been discussed widely in local and national news. All reports, news coverage, and further information about the impacts of the study can be found on our website cospaceoxford.org/.

OP posts:
MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 14/10/2022 13:13

I'm on a similar covid trial for the ONS and I'd write and complain.

Thelnebriati · 14/10/2022 13:10

You should have filled out an ethics & consent form before you started, and you should be given contact details with every new request. Is there anything stored in your emails? Next time they request you fill in a new survey, look for the contact info first.

KnickerlessParsons · 14/10/2022 13:10

*now

KnickerlessParsons · 14/10/2022 13:09

In similar situations I know tick the "other" box.
If that brings up a box asking for more info I write that I have no gender but I will supply my sex if they are interested.

Original poster
Scrabble · 14/10/2022 13:03

I suspect that they sent this new question, after 2 years, because they regret not pandering to the ideology when they started the survey a couple of years ago. But I can't check that because the surveys disappear once you've filled them in.

OP posts:
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