Oxford University covid research

Before any genuinely undecided lurkers make a decision, have a read of this:

www.realityslaststand.com/p/intersex-is-not-as-common-as-red

and wonder to yourselves why anybody honest would define Intersex so widely as “an individual who deviates from the Platonic ideal of physical dimorphism at the chromosomal, genital, gonadal, or hormonal levels” (this definition is so wide as to encompass PCOS and hypospadias) whilst relying on the average reader's assumption that Intersex means genuine ambiguity in sexual development.

ihra.org.au/16601/intersex-numbers/

I think it's fascinating why people who claim they're the Good Guys need to obfuscate and lie so much.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/10/its-intersex-awareness-day-here-are-5-myths-we-need-to-shatter/

Their response is so depressing. It feels as if we are hurtling backwards without ever having reached equality of the sexes.

My psychological state is deeply affected by the fact I'm a woman. From the influence of my menstrual cycle, to the ongoing impact of trauma from male sexual assault, to motherhood, to low socioeconomic status and precarious employment due to maternity discrimination. The pandemic intersected with all this in various and sometimes quite unexpected ways.

But some bros at Oxford University equate identifying as a transwoman with the lived reality of being female under a patriarchy, and shoehorn their experiences in with mine so that must be OK then.

The thing is if we knew who were female women and who were male women then we could analyse the data to see to what degree female women and male women shared experiences, which would be massively helpful. (Purposeful ridiculous terminology there.) In theory the Census should be able to do this this time, but I suspect the data won't be very reliable.

I filled in another survey yesterday, which was one of a series of national surveys and was on how I communicate with HMRC (the tax authorities). I was pleased to see that they first asked what my sex was (male or female). The next question was whether my gender identity was the same as my sex. There were 2 options - yes or no. There was no option to say that you didn't have a gender identity or didn't believe in the concept of gender identity. However, it was possible to tick the No option and then explain your answer. So I said No and then stated that I didn't understand the concept of gender identity.

Yep

you can’t force people to be honest with you (or indeed themselves) about their sex

however deliberately baking in ambiguity in the way the OP describes just leads to totally unreliable data

1. if you’re going to ask for people’s gender’, don’t provide answers like male or female to choose from that relate to sex. Use masculine/feminine/whatever instead

2. we know that where data isn’t sex disaggregated it normally leads to women getting the shitty end of the stick. Therefore always ask for people’s sex unless there’s a jolly good reason why not. And provide appropriate selections to choose from. ‘Other’ is not a sex

it appears that I feel unusually strongly about this today!

Of course they should be asking 'sex', they won't be able to get any accurate useable data otherwise.

I wonder what they do with the 'prefer not to say', I wonder if they look at the name and then just assign it according to that e.g 'Jane' - must be a woman!

I won't fill these forms in now but it will require vast numbers to refuse to give the data to make a difference.

This red hair stat always really annoys me. What’s the baseline population? Because the 1-2% figure for red hair is going to be very different if your baseline is Scotland and Ireland, where red hair is relatively common, or the whole world, which would include populous and dark-haired countries like India and China. So using it as a comparator for DSDs is meaningless.

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

but ‘ other ‘ doesn’t capture any scientific ie verifiable data collection. If you want to find out whether Covid affected trans people differently from other demographics, you need to ask them to identify themselves as transgender, then you would have a valid sector definition ( although it would probably be too small for robust statistical analysis).

the main problem with this argument, however, is that as I understand it, FTM people would identify themselves as male, and MTF people would identify them selves ( that is, tick the box labelled ) as female. That’s the whole point, surely. So if you are going down the politically correct route of TWAW TMAM , you don’t need an ‘ other ‘ box.

unless you mean things like furries, but I think they are still male or female furries? So the two categories still apply.

Sorry, I meant excellent that you've complained .

Excellent.

’but not only that, because of the uncertainty I’ve baked in, I won’t even be able to make any 100% reliable inferences around sex either’

what a waste of everyone’s fucking time

’I’m going to deliberately design my survey so I won’t have a clue if covid had a disproportionate affect on people who identify as trans, tra la la’

👍👍👍

I'd be more choosy about the surveys as a result. I don't think the social and psychological impact is as interesting as the medical stuff, especially given the kinds of questions they are asking.

Experimental Psychology and Psychiatry are demonstrating they don't have much to offer.

This is scientifically inaccurate. The proportion is far, far smaller than you state, about .018%. I think you may have got the decimal point in the wrong place.

By ’intersex’ people ( a derogatory or prejudiced term) , I presume you mean people with a chromosomal abnormality which affects their sexual function and presentation. The sufferers are still clearly male or female at the chromosomal level, and most of the characteristics which are dictated by that are unaffected. The conditions caused by the abnormalities at chromosomal level are clearly distinguished and present differently between males and females who are affected.

‘I think this data is accurate and reliable’ ?

your research sounds super 👍👍👍

I’m guessing not much. Realistically, you will have reliable data. The nature of the surveys doesn’t look especially foolproof to begin with .

Well done Scrabble for getting them to think a bit. I expect they'll have experienced considerable cognitive dissonance if they're real scientists/ medics / researchers (as opposed to self identified ). When you know you're stating a lie but daren't face it, there's a lot of self denial / justification that goes on. Passing it on the the dubious E & D lot is all part of it.

And you end up with a bunch of research where you have no reliable data about the sex of the participants

sounds mucho scientific

what could possibly go wrong?

in research (as in life, frankly) precision is important

Perhaps, but the more that concepts of gender replace the concept of sex in the population the less you will be able to rely on this.

People who are trying to derail this thread by talking about intersex conditions would be advised to read this interview with Claire Graham, who has a DSD known as MRKH. She explains what it means to have a DSD and how many people actually have one (not many, and certainly not the 1.7% cited by some).

womansplaceuk.org/2019/10/21/biological-sex-is-not-a-spectrum-there-are-only-two-sexes-in-humans-with-claire-graham/

Going back a way to point out that this, as a starting point, is what is technically known as "A LIE" and therefore makes subsequent steps likely to be wrong 😉