I have to ask elderly patients for their gender identity

100%

I find the imposition of having to ask questions like this really disturbing.
For those who have their wits about them – and that includes a lot of people’s nans and grandads – it’s downright offensive in that it assumes that the person asked subscribes to the ideology in question.

One thing I’ve noticed is that when GC people are asked about their objections to GI ideology, they can explain coherently what they object to. When GI adherents, however, are asked to explain what gender identity actually is, they fall back on ‘well, it’s complicated’. And this, despite the fact that they can proclaim quite confidently that toddlers (and now even babies in the womb) know what their gender identity is.

In a healthcare setting, unless a question can be framed in such a way that it can be understood by a five-year-old patient or one who is 88 years old with dementia then it shouldn’t be asked. It will never receive a meaningful answer. The danger though is that such answers will be used to formulate future policy and provision.

Do they ask for both sex and gender?

If so, you could ask, 'do you have a gender identity that differs from your sex', would that work?
and if they say WTF?! you can assume they don't.

If they only ask for gender... that's pretty shit!

Our trust has "gender: male/female" on our electronic records which makes my eyelid twitch every time.

Maybe we should just state birth sign when asked. Something that is also generally pretty obvious and just as useful.

I never fill out the religious ones either. I did see a form recently there they wrote ATHEIST in very large letters.

If Mrs Trellis does not volunteer that she was born a man, for example, then record "Gender Identity" as "Female"

I would be really offended if someone recorded that I had a gender identity. I don't buy into that classification system and to me it would be like assuming I am religous.

OP said they have to ask about gender not sex

That’s what I was going to say! I can only imagine my parents and my grandmas opinions (they would be pure gold)

Have they only asked GI and not sex as well?

As you are not in the UK then legal advice may or may not be relevant.

If you do have to ask then you can do one of two things. Ask the sex at the start and then towards the end of getting information say something like, "Oh can I check I asked all the questions, you are male/female".

Or just note the sex and for 'gender ID' write - patient does not have a gender ID.

If you do want to fight then a letter to whoever is imposing this saying that you are a scientific department and you stick to the science. That gender is a social construct, damaging to society and to women in particular and is irrelevant to the treatment.

Think yourself lucky Crabbyfoot - when I was working in the NHS I was told that we had to ask patients every time they attended an appointment - "Have you changed sex since I last saw you?"

I refused point blank to do it, on the grounds that it would be impossible to do my job if I could not establish and maintain a therapeutic relationship - and how could I do that if my patients thought I had gone stark, staring bonkers?

In your situation, if you felt you absolutely had to ask about "gender identity" and didn't want to upset or confuse your patients maybe you could get away with something like:

"Oh! It says on this form I have to ask your "gender identity"? Would that be "female", Mrs Trellis?" (said with a quizzical look, pausing briefly for a laugh, a look of fleeting bewilderment or the chance for Mrs Trellis to volunteer whatever response she felt appropriate - then move swiftly on!)

A potential issue, though rather remote as vanishingly few will claim to have a "gender identity", is that directly questioning patients about their "gender identities" might be experienced as intrusive, even distressingly "outing".

This would be a good reason for replacing a direct question with something more open and potentially much more useful, such as, "Is there anything else that you think I need to know?"

If Mrs Trellis does not volunteer that she was born a man, for example, then record "Gender Identity" as "Female".

Alternatively, you could try to find out from your colleagues what sort of responses their patients gave, surreptitiously sounding out if there would be support for "feedback" to your bosses about the appropriateness and relevance of asking your elderly patients about their "gender identity".

OMG - this has reminded me of a social worker who covered the same wards as me in Elderly Care, who asked all her patients/clients when they last had sex with their "spouse". She persisted in doing this, claiming that it was essential she knew, despite most patients being very angry with her at her impudence, or upset to the point of tears and too distressed to continue the interview, or in one case being outraged at the suggestion that she had sex with animals!

It's not intolerance. My grandad, or my Nanny for that matter genuinely wouldn't know what you were asking. They'd probably assume 'gender' was a polite way of saying 'sex' in which case they'd be confused because you can tell from looking at them/ their names/titles (Mr and Mrs) what sex they are.

👏

For most people it's intolerance of such inane questions in inappropriate settings.

Age is no excuse for being intolerant

I'm really enjoying the thought of my wonderful late nan reacting to this question. She would be 102 if she hadn't died a couple years back. She was a legend who didn't mince her words to the end. She would probably have answered " piss off with that nonsense" or similar.

My Dad was asked this a few times in his last months. He had a great sense of humour and was quite sharp still so was slightly amused by it but I can imagine it being wholly inappropriate.

I recently had to complete a form which asked 'something like' how do I identify- male, female, other- please specify. Then 'do you identify as the same gender you were assigned at birth?' Yes, no, other.

If you aren't working in the UK, then surely what whatever is done here is irrelevant to working practices in the country you are in???

then tick agender for everyone who says no? Or are they not recording sex as well?

This is so mundane now it belies how astoundingly perverse it is. My elderly mother would also know what they mean and would probably take the piss (she’s a legend for showing a healthy disrespect to authority) but for those who are confused, scared or just not on the ball - what the fuck does ‘gender identity’ to them? What does it mean anyway?

I would go through the form and just say as you’re going down the questions ‘so you’re…female… tick’ (and do a big dramatic tick on the form) and take their silence as assent. I would bet my life savings that you’ll get it right each time.

I know this isn't relevant to the thread, but I'm curious if Scots or Welsh would have been equally unacceptable answers?

@Fieldfly Oh pleeeease share what he said! I've had a truly crap day & have no friends/partner so I desperately need cheering up 🙏

Sadly I think most people would translate to mean you're non binary 🙄

What age do you class as elderly? My 85 year oold mother would have given you short shrift.
Just tick the box accordingto sex, you don’t have to ask the question.

WTAF.! Seriously is this the garbage the care sector have to deal with ?

My daughter was recently seen by the community learning disabilities therapy team. She is an adult, with learning difficulties. I was with her to help support her communication.

the appointment went well enough, and then at the end there were all the demographic questions. I left the therapist to it when she started asking gender identity questions, and she literally could not simplify it enough, or explain it in clear enough terms that dd could understand. The only answer dd kept giving was ‘I don’t know what you mean’ when asked eg if she identifies with her birth sex, or if she presents as she feels internally, etc. Total bafflement, and then the therapist asked me to answer for dd, and was not pleased when I pointed out that surely that defeats the object - I can’t possibly know how dd feels internally. I think that section was left blank in the end…