Sheffield Central Labour Candidate - Abtisam Mohamed vs Eddie Izzard

And mentioning that female people exist too, and have inclusion and access needs, and will not stop being homosexual on command.

And the "hate crimes against trans people" referred to - what exactly are they? Are they actual crimes, or things like stickers and ribbons and asking male people why they are in female spaces?

Sorry - meant to add

*made up number for simplicity's sake

Thanks

It is very difficult to take a stand against genderism in public - which is why we need to support those who do and push others to change - but recognise for most it will be a slow gradual realisation.

She could possibly also be at risk of de-selection if she too openly speaks out against the official Labour Party line which is that TW=W. She seems to be walking a bit of a tightrope.

Despite the largest percentage increase being in hate crimes against trans people, the actual numbers are very small - and are completely dwarfed by hate crimes motivated by racism at 109,000, and even disability at 14,000.

Indeed - when numbers are so tiny, even a very small increase, expressed in percentages, appears huge eg*. If 1 TW was assaulted in 2021, and 2 in 2022, then that is a staggering 100% INCREASE! The number of assaults against Transppl has DOUBLED in just a year.

Statistics can be very deceptive.

Yes and I stand by that. If you can't deal with difficult questions from potential constituents then don't stand for public office.

Which difficult questions?

Are you putting her to a higher standard on women's rights than you are putting Izzard, if so why?

Because you've got a local woman against Izzard in a local parliamentary candidacy race.

I know which one of the two I would back to put women first.

Yes and I stand by that. If you can't deal with difficult questions from potential constituents then don't stand for public office.
How you have got from that to accusing me of blaming and trashing Abtisam I have no idea. Maybe we can continue the conversation another time but right now I'm no longer interested. Final good night.

What you actually said was this:

But as, far as I'm concerned, if you (general you) won't or don't feel you can 'stand up for women's rights openly', then don't stand for public office.

It wasn't directed as me , you are right about that.

Just as well I'm not doing that then.
My original post was not even directed at you. As I have said, it was defending the right to ask questions.

This!

``If the Labour Party has reached a stage where defending people's right to ask questions of a parliamentary candidate is regarded as 'blaming' 'making assumptions' and 'trashing' then it's in even deeper shit than I thought.
I will say good night again and this time I mean it.

You are asking and blaming the wrong people.

Don't make Abtisam the figurehead for the transgender agenda.

And some more reasons why I am disengaging:

'You are trashing Abtisam by making assumptions about her position on women's rights on this basis. You are blaming her for the Labour party woes rather than addressing the broader point of the national policies of the Parliamentary Labour Party.'

If the Labour Party has reached a stage where defending people's right to ask questions of a parliamentary candidate is regarded as 'blaming' 'making assumptions' and 'trashing' then it's in even deeper shit than I thought.
I will say good night again and this time I mean it.

And can I please say something about the language I am using?

I feel just as strongly against what Keir Starmer is doing to women as you do.

I just think that women won't benefit from other women being blamed for anti women national policies.

If we become aggressive towards women who stand in local councils on this issue then we potentially harm women in communities and also risk women who, for whatever reason, don't understand the complexities of this becoming ostracised. I am angry at women within the PLP such as Nandy, Phillips and Dodds who are in a good position to actually stand up against this and who SHOULD understand the issues because they are politicians at the national level.

I feel really angry that attention has been diverted to Abtisam by Izzard and suddenly now SHE must be the one to solve this. No. That's just wrong.

I'm going to bow out too now because I see that this argument helps no one.

Indeed - quite the ratio!

You said that you would rather a trans candidate than a woman candidate on the basis of a single tweet about trans awareness.
No I did not say that. I said I had reached the stage of asking the question. I also said I was open to persuasion.

I'm sure you're arguing in good faith but this level of misunderstanding is starting to feel like misrepresentation.
This is why I am disengaging.

But this is insane. You said that you would rather a trans candidate than a woman candidate on the basis of a single tweet about trans awareness. I'm asking how that helps local women?

You are trashing Abtisam by making assumptions about her position on women's rights on this basis. You are blaming her for the Labour party woes rather than addressing the broader point of the national policies of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

I'll ask again have you a good alternative to do the job of the local parliamentary candidate?

I'm very willing to have a good faith argument here. The big picture is that we agree that women matter.

I can't vote labour in a general election either for the same reasons as you but I can't get behind what you are suggesting for the labour party candidate because it doesn't make any sense. It benefits no one least of all women in Sheffield.

Asking questions of a potential parliamentary candidate is neither blaming nor trashing. Quite frankly, lifeturnsonadime if that's the way you are going to represent the argument then I think it's best to disengage for now. Good night.

Well that's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it.

I don't agree that trashing Abtisam to advance Izzard to bring sunlight is the way forward because there are people in Sheffield who need good constituency representation.

Maybe you haven't had to use constituency MPs in the way i have, I don't know, but their role is not just national.

Equally that approach might well backfire. Until Labour changes it's track blaming a Muslim woman who is active in her local community for the anti woman stance of the Labour Party doesn't sit well with me.

Izzard will advance nothing and no one but Izzard.

However it may prove an extremely illuminating experience for everyone concerned about many of the issues women are struggling to be permitted to talk about.

I am so very, very tired of having to try and distinguish between the least of two awful options. And it is not that I do not appreciate what Abtisam has done for the area, I have a particularly lovely neighbour who is a local Labour councillor. Lovely man, works hard, cares about the community.

But he is wedded to Labour, furthers the causes of Labour, and thereby supports absolute batshit anti reality, authoritarianism and male supremacism. He supports it, he enables it, he is part of it, he believes in it.

I cannot and will not ever vote for him. He's the person I'd pick to run the local community centre, the person I'd invite round to tea, but until he shifts allegiance to a saner group - politically I would not trust him as far as I can spit.

And beyond Sheffield for that matter?

Have you a candidate for this seat that can trump Abtisam on women's issues?

If she wins, Abtisam will be in a powerful position and dealing with difficult questions will be part and parcel of her job.

And if she loses Izzard will likely win. How will he advance the cause of women in Sheffield?

I understand what you are saying about the bigger picture, don't get me wrong, but a robust challenge against Labour needs to be against someone higher up the food chain in my opinion.
I think where I disagree with you is that I think anyone who wants to sit in parliament, and potentially vote for legislation that could be devastating for women's rights should be capable of dealing with robust questions. I'm not even implying that Abtisam isn't capable of that - what I am questioning is the protectiveness. My original post - the one you replied to - to was in response to fromorbit for whom I have a lot of time, but who appeared to be criticising people simply for questioning her on Twitter. If she wins, Abtisam will be in a powerful position and dealing with difficult questions will be part and parcel of her job.

I guess I'd like to know more about what this least worst scenario will mean for women's rights?

And for women's rights locally to Sheffield I'd go with a woman who lives there over a trans identifying male , who has made his feelings clear on what he thinks of women's safe spaces, and has nothing to do with the local area any day of the week,

Yes I'm focusing on the local issue. Where I'd prefer a Muslim woman who has knowledge and experience of local issues over Izzard who is riding on the back of trans ideology to step into politics.

In my constituency which is a solid conservative seat we've had, in recent years, 2 female MPs, the current one has no links with the local area and is only interested in appeasing the Party, and is useless as a constituency MP. The previous who was local to the area and lost the whip because she voted against the government on Brexit. She was a fantastic constituent MP. Even though I'm naturally a labour voter the previous one did an amazing job of looking after the constituents.

For Sheffield the local candidate with a track record has to be the right person for the job unless an outsider can come in who can do a better job. Izzard can't do that. All he can do is further the trans aims of Starmer's current Labour Party.

I understand what you are saying about the bigger picture, don't get me wrong, but a robust challenge against Labour needs to be against someone higher up the food chain in my opinion.

So you don't think there can be a least worst case scenario in a political context?
I guess I'd like to know more about what this least worst scenario will mean for women's rights? Because I keep hearing about all this sensitive work that's going on behind closed doors, and how any kind of robust challenge or even a misjudged tweet risks undoing it all.

But I get the impression you want to keep the focus on Sheffield Central which is fair enough so maybe I should save it for another thread.