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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm not a woman - which facilities should I use

516 replies

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 11/10/2022 07:52

Genuinely interested to hear what supporters of gender ideology would recommend here. I am biologically female but do not identify as a woman. I am officially trans though in reality I don't think I am the sort of person Stonewall meant to refer to in their definition of trans (I am gender critical - which for those who have been misled by some made-up definitions, to me means that sometimes sex, rather than gender, matters. It is not an anti-trans stance).

The question is - which facilities should I use? I should not be in the ladies if that is defined by identity but using the men's does not feel right either. How do gender ideologists suggest I negotiate this?

OP posts:
2bazookas · 11/10/2022 12:52

Without a penis you can't use a mens urinal . Therefore you will have to pee in a toilet in a closed stall.

It's up to you if you use the closed stalls in the mens or womens facilities. Nobody here can make that choice for you.

To avoid having to make it, you could just use the "parent and child" or "disabled" facilities (when available) both of which are solo and unisex. There are many invisible "disabilities" and they include independently mobile people of any gender with mental or physical issues (claustrophobia, catheters, stomas, incontinence wear ) who just need extra space or time to manage their toilet.

Just common sense really.

Whatwouldscullydo · 11/10/2022 12:50

OMG12 · 11/10/2022 12:41

This is why we need either a third space or men, ie those with a penis toilets and women those without a penis toilets. Still not perfect but takes awSy the confusion and some of the risk.

Those were suggested at the beginning. And people were accused of "othering" trans people.

Trans people could have put all the effort into this years ago had all the public support and be done by now.

Its all about removing spaces for women. Its not like.men and males have any problem deciding where to go. They always use the women's using one of multiple gender identities that aren't even women as entry criteria.

Its not about safety or why push for anything that gives the very men amd males that are apparently dangerous to trans people thr opportunities to follow them straight into the women's with them.

With a side order of getting a kick out of a) making women who identity as men offer themselves up as an.all you can eat buffet on male spaces.

b) ensuring women have no where to got that men and males cant follow them

c) the fact that women now keep themselves home where in their eyes they belong because they either won't go out with no where safe to go. Or have been manipulated into thinking they cant go anywhere as they arent men or women.

Women are just being used ti validate male identities.

Doris86 · 11/10/2022 12:45

You’re a woman so use the women’s toilets. Simple.

EmeraldShamrock1 · 11/10/2022 12:42

There is generally quite a lot of misery in the developed world at the moment. Is it because of shit like this? Have we become so ridiculously spoilt and entitled - to the extent that demanding a special toilet for a handful of people has become a perfectly valid request - that we've totally lost sight of the things to be grateful for.
💯
Allowing a handful of people change society at the expense of others.

Sallydimebar · 11/10/2022 12:42

Just use the female .
Honestly I want to scoop my kids up and run sometimes but where do you go .
Daughter was showing me a video of a group this morning who identify as cats while reminding there’s a generation soon who will be in -charge of schools . I don’t want my kids having to choose between 20 different public toilets .

fully support your right to identify as you want but don’t over think it and make it more complicated then it needs to be .

OMG12 · 11/10/2022 12:41

This is why we need either a third space or men, ie those with a penis toilets and women those without a penis toilets. Still not perfect but takes awSy the confusion and some of the risk.

maranella · 11/10/2022 12:41

NippyWoowoo · 11/10/2022 12:33

Y'all are taking the bait.

Yeah, this has got to be a troll!

bellinisurge · 11/10/2022 12:38

@Calandor NOT the disabled toilet. That is for disabled people. I have MS and sometimes need access to it. Someone having an existential crisis shouldn't be blocking that space.

Coucous · 11/10/2022 12:36

Gotskeaswr · 11/10/2022 12:34

Why’s it up to the internet to decide? Decide for yourself. Be sensible about it, and be safe. Use a unisex loo if available.

This - because surely we wouldn’t know.

Coucous · 11/10/2022 12:35

Where do you think you should go?
Is it the same as someone assuming a person of mixed heritage is white rather than what they really are/ how they identify racially?

Does it stop you from day to day functions?

LadyMary50 · 11/10/2022 12:34

arethereanyleftatall · 11/10/2022 08:55

There is generally quite a lot of misery in the developed world at the moment. Is it because of shit like this? Have we become so ridiculously spoilt and entitled - to the extent that demanding a special toilet for a handful of people has become a perfectly valid request - that we've totally lost sight of the things to be grateful for.

Totally agree,this need to be special is particularly insensitive considering the appalling treatment of women in Iran and many other parts of the world.😔

Calandor · 11/10/2022 12:34

The ladies or the disabled/ changing loos. Tbh, for your own safety. Your sex is female so ladies can not argue you shouldn't be in there but the disabled/changing toilet may be more comfortable for you.

TheClogLady · 11/10/2022 12:34

NippyWoowoo · 11/10/2022 12:33

Y'all are taking the bait.

All y’all folx?

Gotskeaswr · 11/10/2022 12:34

Why’s it up to the internet to decide? Decide for yourself. Be sensible about it, and be safe. Use a unisex loo if available.

NippyWoowoo · 11/10/2022 12:33

Y'all are taking the bait.

bellinisurge · 11/10/2022 12:33

"Respectful transwomen who have fully transitioned and don't look male at all are as vulnerable as me and need the same protections as me"
@grey12 , I would have said that too but LARPing men have ruined my good will towards transsexuals. That ship has sailed.

gonutkin · 11/10/2022 12:32

Waitingfordecember · 11/10/2022 09:33

I think proper (fully enclosed cubicles with sink) gender neutral toilets are the fairest and most convenient option for everyone.

That way no one risks harassment or making others uncomfortable. And as an extra bonus, I won’t have to choose between sending my sons into a public bathroom alone or upsetting other women when they get older, and my niece won’t have to see men using urinals whenever she is out with her dad.

I would not use a toilet if it was gender neutral and would not feel comfortable or safe doing so, I think a blanket statement that it is better for everyone is very far from the truth. I would much rather go home or somewhere else than do this.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 11/10/2022 12:30

but do you go to the one of your actual star sign or the one you identify most with?

Tabasco007 · 11/10/2022 12:29

TeaAndStrumpets · 11/10/2022 08:46

Coming soon, toilets divided by star sign.

You heard it here first.

Lol!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 11/10/2022 12:28

Wasn't there a tv documentary where a transwoman took a brain scan. It didn't show anything.

Not even a brain?

gonutkin · 11/10/2022 12:28

lovelilies · 11/10/2022 08:19

The thing is, no one else cares what you do or don't identify as.

You have female anatomy, you aren't capable of raping a woman.

If you need a wee in public, go to the ladies. No one will force you into a dress and high heels in the way out!

Fwiw, I have short hair and don't wear make up. I even wear 'mens' jeans (they have great pockets). I don't deliberate about my gender, no one really cares. I'm female, go to the ladies, have a wee, wash your hands and go about your day 😊

Love this comment!

grey12 · 11/10/2022 12:27

*If you are biologically male, whether you look "scary" or not, whether you take female hormones or not, whether you have had genital surgery or not, whether you are "beautiful" or not - you need to use the male toilet.

You are male.*

@Emotionalsupportviper if someone is fully transitioned and looks very much like a woman, why would they go to the male toilet? 🤨 I hate the new trans ideas but I'm fully on board with the old ones.
Respectful transwomen who have fully transitioned and don't look male at all are as vulnerable as me and need the same protections as me

ilovesushi · 11/10/2022 12:25

Using the loo doesn't need to be a big statement about identity. If your sex is female and those facilities meet your needs, then go ahead and use them. I'm not wondering about the inner life of other random people I may cross paths with using public loos. I am generally just getting on with my day and hoping to find loo roll and a clean seat!

Whatwouldscullydo · 11/10/2022 12:25

maranella · 11/10/2022 12:23

Sorry but this is bollocks and has every relation to science. If you do a DNA test on the OP, who has given birth to two DC, she will be clearly female. The science is VERY clear and unless the individual is intersex (and I accept that intersex individuals do exist), then humans are biologically male or female. Biology doesn't care about someone's feelings - they may feel like a cat or an alien or a potted plant, but that does not make them one.

Wasn't there a tv documentary where a transwoman took a brain scan. It didn't show anything.

If it did brain scans would be part of the diagostic process .

maranella · 11/10/2022 12:23

Solonge · 11/10/2022 11:03

How do you know this? I worked in a gender re-assignment clinic…and many trans people often don’t have the same hormones, brain patterns and in some cases there are very blurred lines with genitalia. Telling someone ‘well, you’ve got all the bits, you must be a woman’ doesn’t help when that persons brain says otherwise.
This is really an area of medicine and social science where we are learning more daily. The public can make life easier for trans….by accepting…..or difficult, because they have a fixed idea in their head that belongs with the last century and bears little relation to science….but it makes themselves feel more comfortable.

Sorry but this is bollocks and has every relation to science. If you do a DNA test on the OP, who has given birth to two DC, she will be clearly female. The science is VERY clear and unless the individual is intersex (and I accept that intersex individuals do exist), then humans are biologically male or female. Biology doesn't care about someone's feelings - they may feel like a cat or an alien or a potted plant, but that does not make them one.

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