Detransitioners are getting louder. This is heartbreaking

I mean I think you’re conflating two issues here - being forced into dresses and skirts is also a bad thing. It’s not like being ‘met with the wooden spoon’ for saying you don’t like wearing dresses was somehow good. The point is kids (and adults) should be able to wear what they like without it somehow being reflective of them thinking their sex must be different.

I think anyone who detransitions is really very brave. It must be very difficult to admit you got it wrong and go against your support systems like that. It’s a shame they aren’t both presented to young people who are talking about being trans. They only really see the pro trans it’s great side, but I wish they were ado encouraged to research detransitioners too.

I think a lot of us GC types feel that way. TRAs think we're pearl clutching 1950s gender conformists fainting at the youth of today. When the opposite is true. We were those kids, life and experience worked things out and we can sniff a troubled teen trend a mile off.

Sorry for my blunt language. If I wasn't being clear, I was saying that I think trans people are fucked up and that trans people's dating pool is other trans people, primarily.

IMHO "fucked up" might be politically incorrect, but it is fair shorthand for someone suffering such severe mental health issues that they are willing to risk their long term health and fertility taking hormones that their body was not designed for, and in some cases to actually have body parts removed leaving them sexual non-functioning. If that is not fucked up I don't know what is. ANd that is before we consider how fucked up it is for men to demand access to get changed with pubescent girls or how fucked up it is to train others to threaten suicide, or demand others change their entire speech to reflect your "reality" that is the direct opposite of actual reality, or to promote an explicitly homophobic and misogynistic agenda.

My view is that there is a really fucked up pyramid scheme to this, where older trans people know that "normal" people don't find trans people attractive for physical / sexuality and personality reasons, they know that dating is near impossible for them and there is little or no sexual pleasure to be gained... and the only possible comfort they can get is in getting more (vulnerable, young) people in the club.

“I wonder the extent to which you are right and the extent to which a lot of TRA voices are pre-, post- and never-gonna-have-op trans people who are literally only concerned with increasing the size of their dating pool (their dating pool being fucked up people who are unattractive to normal men and women due to self and medical abuse).”

I wonder if you could call people who date people with any other protected characteristic ‘fucked up people’ on here?

There are some very unpleasant people around.

There's an expression in Welsh "Yr hen a ŵyr, yr ifanc a dybia" which translates as "The old know, the young presume / guess".

Some sayings could do with repeating a good deal more.

It seems to happen a lot more in the US. Fortunately there is a more cautious approach in the U.K. at least. Especially to surgery.

The cult of individuality/consumerism happened, and increasing fetishization of youth/denigration of older and experienced voices happened.

Individual needs trump community and self-identity is more important than action. The symbol is more important than the thing itself.

We're also in a bizarre place (largely in the west) where adults look to young people to guide opinion...why? Kids have always thought they know everything, but they used to get told to shut up.

I keep reading the twitter threads but it is heartbreaking. Unbelievable that adults have treated children in this way and done such a number on society that those who object are seen as bigots. And all those who urged me to 'be kind', I want to hold them down and force them to read the threads too, and point out I was being kind, you utter fuckwits.

It is unbearable. So grieved for them.

Heartbreaking thread about how many trans men were under the impression that you have to have a hysterectomy after 5 years on T; and most thought it was akin to getting your tonsils out.

twitter.com/choromatz/status/1580183252257886209?s=46&t=azkhB5JyWFfSHPqZC6Xrig

You remember correctly.

That was in Wyoming, USA. It was passed in the end, thankfully.

Bill to ban FGM blocked by trans activists

newer detransitioners ask if their breasts will grow back when they stop T. The understanding was that cross sex hormones give transwomen breasts, so stopping T and taking female hormones would obviously grow theirs back

Is nobody telling the young people facing surgery/taking hormoes the consequences and risks? Definite and potential?

So many people telling the detransitioners to just 'take the other pills' (hormones) as if one could swing back and forward and morph one's body at will. I suppose when young you have that feeling of invulnerability and immortality. So many young people are facing complications and health problems that should just not be an issue for them. It's utterly heartbreaking.

Oh my god. This makes me want to cry.

I want to know where Coy Mathis is now.
What effect has that fame had on their life? Are they still living as a girl?

I have a friend who grew up in a Jehovah's Witness family, and has limited, strained contact with them after she left the faith (they didn't tell her her Nan had died). I think the cultists hate ex-cultists more than those who were never one of them.

It's the handwashing that gets me.

NHS posts links to a repository of child porn and supports WPATH's suggestion that eunuch is a gender identity? Ah, just the kind of wee slip up we all make at work from time to time, eh?

Thanks, lovely Soph.

Agree completely this is taking too long to break.

It's incredibly frustrating that women (Yes some men, but mostly women) have been on and on about all of this for years and it's been ignored at best. At worst, those women have also been pilloried, sacked threatened, abused, mocked, smeared and shunned.

Gosh it's almost like mass denial, isn't it?

Argh, that should have been

triple post, sorry!

I can't recall.where I've seen such fury before, except in my abusive ex when I threatened to leave

Its not a coincidence that we can see parallels is it? It comes from the same abusive roots. Daring to leave an abusive situation triggers rage in the abuser, standing up and saying “this isn’t right” and “you have harmed me” in terms of gender ideology results pretty much the same collective response.

also, some flowers for you and I’m glad that your ex is ex.

She’s very brave.

Distressed child has powerful drug treatment with unknown long term consequences and a double mastectomy at fifteen years old following a sexual assault, and I’m supposed to be a bigot for finding that completely horrifying? No.

The medical scandal of this is taking far too long to break, and there are far too many casualties. How many more young women have to suffer these appalling consequences?

wishing Chloe and all of the other brave women speaking out about this all the very, very best. You deserved better than this.

I'm sure if detransitioners want support there is empathy and space here for them, btw

The cruelty. The vicious, sneering, mocking, raging cruelty.

I was utterly taken aback by the response to detransitioners. People say horrible things on the internet, but this was different.

I can't recall.where I've seen such fury before, except in my abusive ex when I threatened to leave.

I've seen a lot of the progressive be kind glitter folx making cruel comments about the appearance of detransitioners.

Apparently kids that were so mentally distressed that the only option was drugs and surgery were also mentally competent enough to undertake the full implications of drugs and surgery so its their own fault and they should shut up 🤷‍♀️

The progressive left in the US seem to believe that they 'are on the right side of history', like those who were supportive of gay rights and gay marriage were in the past. They don't/can't/won't see that this is different, that by following this ideology to it's logical [illogical] conclusion they have made peace with the idea that it's okay to medicate and physically alter DC who are too young to know what they are doing.

I don't believe that most of them are evil, they're just blinkered and brainwashed and the US is so radical in this regard and there is such vocal support that to question is to out yourself as a crazy, right-wing MAGA hat wearing bigot. But by being 'tolerant' and 'accepting' and 'affirming' and 'kind' and liberal, they've somehow reached an accommodation in their own minds with allowing DC to make themselves infertile, remove healthy breasts and genitalia, and make other permanent changes to their bodies and their appearance that many of them cannot possibly understand the long term consequences of.