Another nurse (NZ) suspended for challenging gender affirmative care

I actually thought he handled that pretty well, it defended the young women and made it clear he didn’t accept Laurel Hubbard as legitimate female competitor.

if you see it from his angle, the Samoan prime minister called Hubbard a ‘man in the manner of a woman’.

However, if you see it from Hubbard’s POV (the TRA angle) the Samoan prime minister called Fa’afafine men transgender.

Which says a lot about the current form of Western (mostly American, but with us swept along) internet driven cultural imperialism - just endlessly repeating/retweeting the bits of other cultures that suit a fashionable western narrative whilst not bothering to take the time to really understand them in the proper context.

There’s a shallowness of thought thing going on that you can see endlessly repeated across various topics. It’s as if the internet is ruining the human attention span and as long as you look like you care by holding the preapproved position, you don’t actually have to manifest that care through understanding or action.

The PM there spoke out against it and even said, we have our own Fa’afafine so maybe we can look at putting them in competitions so we don’t miss out. I’m not sure how serious he was.

Yeah... I doubt he was serious. He was very definite that Fa'afafine were male and not female in any way.

@TheClogLady yes, also important to know that ‘sodomy’ is still illegal in Samoa. The culture of Fa’afafine isn’t something to hold up and respect. Fa’afafine should be respected like anyone of course but the culture of it and the history of it is too awful and complex to discuss it the way TRAs do. Samoa was the country that missed out on gold medals in weightlifting to a kiwi transwoman. The Samoan girls that missed out were young and poor, had fought hard to go and had it stolen. The PM there spoke out against it and even said, we have our own Fa’afafine so maybe we can look at putting them in competitions so we don’t miss out. I’m not sure how serious he was.

Like I said, I don’t know how accurate Vasey’s conclusions are but sadly, it does seem that many of the ‘third genders’ that TRAs trumpet as some sort of enlightened ancient form of transgenderism were really a convenient way for a society to pigeonhole (and often segregate) feminine gay men.

Homophobia/fear of gender non conformity has seemingly been fairly universal across nations, throughout history, it just manifested differently.

Such an annoyance that after finally starting to get to grips with it in quite tangible ways (eg same sex marriage), the gender ideologues now want to reinstate it in a new guise!

And partly by appropriating from other cultures and then holding up their example as some sort of homophobia-beyond-criticism because if you say dare say ‘hang on a minute…’ they will call you racist!

@Helleofabore I believe they updated it since she either did the video or researched for it. The update is very recent. Meanwhile now they acknowledge they are not safe or fully reversible, they haven’t stopped their use or concerned themselves with the children already on them.

I mean, I did think I heard her call The Tavistock, 'The Travistock'... It might have been deliberate.

But she discussed things on this video that we discuss here, she has pulled it together.

She also is highlighting that the Ministry of Health has not updated their website on Puberty Blockers and say they are 'safe and fully reversible'. I guess that is misinformation, but not from her, but from the Ministry of Health in New Zealand.

I am now very interested to see landOF and maui tell us what was the misinformation she is spreading in this video. But I won't hold my breath.

I learned quite early on in life that some people can have very strange views around one thing, yet be spot on about other topics. It is called growing up and becoming an adult.

@TheClogLady thank you. Having talked to much older gay Samoan men who were forced to be Fa’afafine, I really object to westerners using their story at all to support modern transgender ideology.

The culture in NZ in general is quite different to the UK where you question and fight for yourselves more. There they tend to accept things, the team of 5 million isn’t a sweet innocent phrase to use to fight a virus, it’s used to control. There they named and shamed people they believed, erroneously on occasion, ‘spread covid’ by breaking restrictions- which wasn’t always accurate. This is the same with self ID, people don’t want to speak out about their concerns in similar ways to UK, but it’s much more of an issue there where they like to be seen as patriotic and there isn’t many speaking out. Like I say, they think nothing of getting behind a team including multiple violent abusers, if everyone else is doing it. The mocking of kiwis being like sheep is actually accurate. They don’t think, they follow. With rare exceptions. That’s why I worry about our children there now, where there isn’t anywhere near the concern there should be for puberty blockers.

in the interests of fact checking the points in the video:

I recall this Gender A Wider Lens episode with Paul Vasey being helpful with my understanding of the concept and culture of Fa'afafine (although obvs I am not best placed to comment on it’s accuracy)

copy and paste:

Recent theories about gender often describe “third gender” categories found in other cultures.
Prof Paul Vasey is one of the world’s leading academic experts on the Fa’fafine. These individuals are feminine males who live “in the manner of a woman” in Samoa. Sasha and Stella have a spellbinding discussion with Paul about how our western constructs can sometimes completely misinterpret well-researched phenomena in other societies. This conversation actually highligths the universal truths of sex difference between male and female and helps us understand the organice, naturally emerging trait of femininity in androphilic (or same sex attracted) males.

Links:
“What can the Samoan "Fa'afafine" teach us about the Western concept of gender identity disorder in childhood?” by Paul Vasey and Nancy Bartlett (2007). pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17951...

● Paul talks about Fa’afafine and how he got interested in this culture.
● Is gender identity disorder in children a mental disorder? Paul shares what they found with the data they collected on their studies of the Samoan people.
● What is Fa’afafine? Paul shares its definition.
● Paul also talks about the history of Fa’afafine in Samoa and how they are socially accepted in their culture.
● Does Fa’afafine also exist in other cultures? Paul shares the different groups around the world that have the same identity.
● Paul talks about what being gay means in the cultures of Samoa and Oaxaca.
● Is there an equivalent of Fa’afafine for females? Paul talks about the other categories of this kind.
● Paul talks about the typical behaviors children from Samoa usually exhibit that helps families identify them as being of the third gender.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=tkulTD3ZHfM

There is a similar feeling (historically warranted!) of vaccine mistrust amongst a lot of British Afro Caribbean friends. Attempts to steam roller over that dissent without even seeking to understand it really troubles me.

I’m glad to hear puberty blockers aren’t (yet) affecting your youth. Hopefully we can halt it here and in Europe (America will be harder due to commercialised medicine) before it becomes an issue.

I was thinking about that the other day too - I read that Mermaids won a £10,000 local charity award and it struck me what a shit show it was that Mermaids got cash that was for them, a drop in the ocean, whereas for other Yorkshire charities, especially small ones with no paid staff, that ten grand would make a massive difference.

Gender has become such a fashionable cause that it’s practically a charity/diversity Borg, chomping up all the time, effort and cash and leaving nothing for disabled kids, seriously ill kids, kids affected by poverty or parental addiction, child carers etc.

and of course, nothing is allowed to exclusively be for women and girls anymore.

It’s amusing how quickly it descends into personal abuse with the gender cultists.
’a stalker’ . In your dreams, as we used to say.

I think I might go and look up that document and have a read.

Yes, I recommend it. Always wise to read and listen before dismissing and attacking someone for raising the issue.

That is categorically untrue; transgenderism exists throughout Pacific cultures. This is widely documented.

no it isn’t. Stop lying.

At around 7.25 on the video she has a table (table 9) that shows whoever created that document in NZ Dept of Health knows very well the effects of cross sex hormones. I think I might go and look up that document and have a read.

I am nearly half way through and there seems to be little misinformation that I can see. Looking forward to seeing a post what I am missing.

True, no-one in the Pacific thinks fafafine are actually women.

Read the comment directly above you.

Tell us, point by point, what she has wrong in this video.

She lost me when she said there were no examples of transgenderism in historic māori culture. That is categorically untrue; transgenderism exists throughout Pacific cultures. This is widely documented.

@TheClogLady yes and when the unrelated issues the poster is banging on about disproportionately affect Maori and Polynesian for historical reasons of mistreatment by government causing distrust, you just know they don’t dare about racism and the health or safety of those groups. It’s not about covid.

Regarding if gender ideology disproportionately affects Maori youth, hard to say for me but I think it is similar with how it affects womens groups and feminist groups in that trans issues dominate now and are prioritised as are the voices of those people. We have people misrepresenting the history of our people in order to support their western theories on gender, a lot, which is deeply annoying. Even more so for Samoans and Fa’afafine, which is always completely misunderstood and distorted by these middle class white westerners trying to force this crap on everyone. Fa’afafine has its roots in homophobia and misogyny. They don’t actually think anyone is in the wrong body or that Fa’afafine are actually female. Nobody gives puberty blockers to kids there.

I have spent a lot of time arguing against antivaxxers before and since Covid, people dead set against the MMR vaccine, or vaccination in general, or in Germany against the tick-borne encephalitis vaccine, and I have never before seen this vilification of antivaxxers and the refusal to engage with them as I see now with anti-Covid vaxxers. It's almost as if it's used to shut down people who come from what is perceived to be the wrong political side.

This is a derail but you sound incredibly paranoid. More and more evidence is emerging regarding vaccine side effects so let’s come back and discuss this in a year.

It’s important to discuss the video because NZ is often held up as progressive and an awesome place to live, for women and girls nothing could be further from the truth. In September the Ministry of Health removed the words ‘ safe and fully reversible’ from its website regarding publicity blockers.

And the exact same people likely call themselves anti racist too!

’Conspiracy theorist’ is starting to feel the same as ‘transphobe’ ‘racist’ fascist’ ‘nazi’ etc. We get accused of being conspiracy theorists when we express concern about sex offenders, yet we just found an academicpaedo on the Board of Trustees at Mermaids and a man with a dick pic on Twitter running their digital engagement strategy 🤦‍♀️

So we’re just gonna have to file ‘conspiracy theorist’ in the Fuck It Bucket of insults used against us if we care about safeguarding children.

Do you think Genderism might be disproportionately affecting Māori children? I’ve been looking at the emotional landscape of Chinese adoptees to the west (all those baby girls that were part of a programme) and gender identity is coming up again and again. It’s not really talked about yet. Obviously it’s not going to be quite the same with children growing up with their families but I’m now idly wondering if perhaps being marginalised on your own islands could create a similar psychological response?

I haven’t really seen the Chinese adoptees angle hit mainstream yet but it’s coming up over and over again in the parents of gender distressed kids groups.

I guess I’m just a conspiracy theorist 😉

Repeated attempts to derail should be ignored, especially if they’re appropriating another culture to be incredibly vile to a group of people they don’t know.

Tell you what.

Tell us, point by point, what she has wrong in this video.

Otherwise, you are just continuing to attempt to derail this thread.

I look forward to discussing the misinformation in this part video with whoever wishes to discredit her for what she says here in the video.

@TheClogLady

Jennifer Scott believes that Covid vaccines are dangerous and had her practising certificate revoked for leading a social media campaign that discouraged people from obtaining covid vaccines during a global pandemic. Twisting this to imply that she merely opposed vaccine mandates is a dishonest and disgraceful rewriting of history.

People need to be aware that she is a dangerous moron who peddles disinformation and engages in activities that undermine public health.

A nurse should know better. Which is why she is no longer a nurse.