Impact of hormone blockers

Spotted this via Buck Angel's twitter feed

www.pubertyblockerssuck.org/

I mean it's not exactly claiming impartiality with a URL like that, but maybe the links on it could be useful?

I disagree.

If someone told me puberty blockers are safe and reversible I'd say 'well, the same drugs are used to castrate paedophiles so how could they ever be safe for kids?'.

It's shocking because it is shocking. It is visceral because it is visceral. The more we couch the horrors in softly softly words the longer this shit show will carry on and the more kids will get hurt.

Another bit of a tangent, but relevant I think. My partner was watching the travel/fishing/men's health show with Bob Mortimer and the other guy. I was probably on MN. My ears pricked up because they had a Dr on who was explaining about how lower amounts of testosterone negatively affects men's health. His concern was that it was something that happens as men age. But, again, obviously will be a factor in the health of some tw. If it helps they caught a carp and a barbel.

On discussing the issues on hormone blockers with my DD I brought up the point that puberty blockers stop the brain maturing process that comes with puberty. It then emerged that she, along with all her friends, thought that subsequently taking cross sex hormones means that you would go through the puberty process of the opposite sex! . She was astounded to learn that puberty is a complex interaction of several different hormones to bring about all the changes to make you a mature adult. She thought all you needed to become a mature woman was oestrogen tablets! She is a highly intelligent graduate in her 20s but not in the science field.

I'm not sure she really believes my explanation of why this is not the case. Does anyone have a link to a reputable scientific source which explains in detail all the processes involved in puberty?

Are they not used in ivf cycles? You could ask in the ivf boards what it felt like and how it impacted day to day.

Then I think if I were in your shoes I'd say something along the lines of 'You still haven't presented me with any evidence that they're not harmful and I'd like to see some before I discuss this any further'. And then I'd disengage until she does it.

Also I think JacquelinePot makes a very good point: she's emotionally very close to this because of her brother and so reason and evidence might not be the way forward.

I think I've seen you talking about this on another thread? What strikes me is that you seem to be doing all the work here. Has she presented you with any evidence yet? I think that, when a drug is relatively untested (or has previously been mostly used to treat other conditions) then the onus should be on the people promoting it to prove that it's safe, not the other way round.

These are drugs used to chemically castrate paedophiles. How could anyone of sound mind think they are in any way 'safe'?

I am plonking this here as well for anyone interested in some points to start to consider when reading some evidence that sometimes appears to get posted.

www.realityslaststand.com/p/the-distortions-in-jack-turbans-psychology

This on bone density.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33894110/

as I said on another thread, there is another study that activists have posted. It says that males tend to recover there bone density on I estrogen more than females on testosterone. However, there are detransitioner males who have reported issues with bone density. If I find the study I will add it here. It could be the one though that Michael Biggs discusses here though, I have not got time to check.

Then again, I daresay your friend is past appreciating the information you are giving her by the sounds of it.

As Helen Joyce says "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themself into". I find it much better to ask questions than present facts. Gender identity theory isn't based on facts, it's based on feelings so you coming at it with facts may not work.

As for puberty blockers specifically, what does your friend think are the benefits of stopping a child developing - physically, psychologically and emotionally - to maturity?

We are usually told that giving children off-label drugs which stop their bodies and minds developing simply gives the child time to devide what they want to do. But this doesn't stack up. These drugs stop the brain from maturing which means that they will not develop the capacity to make the decisions that are supposedly being put on hold.

Oddly enough I've just found this article on the Guardian about the placebo effect. Although it doesn't mention trans medicine I think the relevance is obvious. I didn't think it warranted its own thread so, if it's okay, I'm putting it here:

www.theguardian.com/science/2022/oct/08/placebos-expert-kathryn-t-hall-effect-painkillers-interview

New drugs aren't deemed fine until proven otherwise. They have to be proven to be safe before use. Puberty blockers have never been proven to have no untoward effects and the evidence is mounting to suggest they are harmful. Puberty is essential for brain development to become an adult. Without it, male or female, that person is likely to remain in a junior state, physically and mentally, forever.

It's also worth discussing not just the reversibility (or lack thereof) of puberty blockers but also the immediate side effects.

The one I find most concerning is that Depression is listed as a common side effect. When you're dealing with children/teens who are dysphoric and/or have disclosed a risk of suicide, why would you give a medication that has depression as a common side effect?

www.rxlist.com/lupron-side-effects-drug-center.htm

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fda-issues-warning-on-puberty-blockers-some-ala-lawmakers-support-findings/ar-AA102Ha6

'The FDA identified six cases of females who were taking a puberty blocker and suffered from brain swelling and vision los'