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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Existential Angst

33 replies

InterestingUsernameTBC · 07/10/2022 13:30

Events at work this week and the discussion here re: Nicola Sturgeon have reignited my recurring feelings of hopelessness and powerlessness.

To express perfectly reasonable, understandable, logical, evidenced concerns about the harms that come from self-ID and to have that all just dismissed.

I really fear for the society my daughters are growing up in and I feel utterly powerless to do anything about it. The march towards self-ID feels inevitable. And I just can't envisage a reasonable outcome.

How do we create a society that recognises and accepts all those people who, for whatever reason, want to deny their sex whilst simultaneously recognising and accepting all those people who, for whatever reason, want to (or can't help but...) recognise sex?

We can all accept people of other religious beliefs, and make accommodations for them to hold and practice their beliefs because there is no obligation on us to participate in those beliefs or any associated rituals in everyday life. (Totally understandable to observe rituals you may not believe in when you're in someone else's religious space. And as a society we do allow people to have religious spaces.)

But with self-ID we are all expected to participate in an individual's belief about themselves. We are all asked to participate in their rituals through the use of pronouns. Their 'religious space' as we might see it, becomes society itself. So where do those of us who don't share that belief system fit into society?

OP posts:
Carproblem · 07/10/2022 18:06

Imagine telling a trans person that their beliefs in their ideology are "luxury" because some people were in the Holocaust!
Oh my goodness.

InterestingUsernameTBC · 07/10/2022 17:37

From Wikipedia:

Existentialism (/ˌɛɡzɪˈstɛnʃəlɪzəm/[1] /ˌɛksəˈstɛntʃəˌlɪzəm/[2]) is a form of philosophical inquiry that explores the problem of human existence and centers on the subjective experience of thinking, feeling, and acting.[3][4] Existentialist thinkers frequently explore issues related to the meaning, purpose, and value of human existence. In the view of an existentialist, the individual's starting point has been called "the existential angst", a sense of dread, disorientation, confusion, or anxiety in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world.[5]

"Existential angst", sometimes called existential dread, anxiety, or anguish, is a term common to many existentialist thinkers.[47] It is generally held to be a negative feeling arising from the experience of human freedom and responsibility.

I think the term fits with what I'm experiencing.

OP posts:
JellySaurus · 07/10/2022 17:29

No, it's not a competition. But I do think they have a point.

ZeldaFighter · 07/10/2022 17:08

JellySaurus · 07/10/2022 16:58

Not sure my friend's parents would agree with you. They consider existential angst to be a luxury indulged in by people whose fundamental needs are secure. My friend's parents are Holocaust survivors.

The problem with that kind of thinking is that there's always someone to one up you. I suffered a parental bereavement but other people have had it worse in other ways. It's not a competition.

JellySaurus · 07/10/2022 16:58

Not sure my friend's parents would agree with you. They consider existential angst to be a luxury indulged in by people whose fundamental needs are secure. My friend's parents are Holocaust survivors.

YouSirNeighMmmm · 07/10/2022 16:29

I think the problem is that humans can cope with problems, set-backs and unfairness (three things that most of us are facing most of the time)... so long as there is a sense that as a society and as a species we are moving forward. When we look around and it seems like things are moving backwards not forwards then those problems, set-backs and unfairness hit us so much harder.

JellySaurus · 07/10/2022 16:10

Agree with both of you.

I think you could say that most feelings of trans-ness are themselves a form of existential angst.

Existential angst seems to be a normal part of human existence. Most of us suffer it to some degree or another, centred on various issues. But most of us get in with life, sometimes exploring it, sometimes embracing it, sometimes not. It's unusual that a few expect the rest of society to resolve their personal angst for them. They rarely have the power to control others. But not in the case of this variety.

ZeldaFighter · 07/10/2022 15:42

I'm not sure there is an answer because you're trying to find a reasonable solution to an unreasonable problem. I hope the answer will be that we re-draw boundaries based on biological sex but become more accepting of individual expression ie you can be a man and wear make-up, it doesn't make you a woman! But I'm not holding my breath!

I get the existential angst though. I'm a lifelong feminist and Labour voter only to discover I agree with Donald Trump and Boris Johnson on gender! Very distressing

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