Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How was your gender transition?

35 replies

MilesOfCarpetTiles · 06/10/2022 10:43

NC but am a regular on here.

I'd previously assumed that 'transitioning' meant, essentially, a person who very much wanted to be perceived as the opposite sex taking on - usually, not always - stereotypically culturally masculine or feminine aspects of appearance to assist with this perception (clothes, hair, make-up, etc), although I also realise that transitioning can be simply a change of name and requested pronouns. I have sympathy with people who are deeply unhappy with the sex of their bodies, as well as people who feel they do not appear feminine or masculine 'enough' for society to accept them, so this is in no way a dig at them but an exploration of what I have learned.

Reading Bristol Council's proposed Trans Inclusion and Gender Identity Policy at
www.ask.bristol.gov.uk/trans-inclusion-and-gender-diversity-policy-consultation -
(essentially, to help trans people, they want to make all single-sex spaces mixed-sex and you can 'choose' the one you prefer - the consultation is open for a few more days if you feel there are safety or dignity issues with this - however, the policy does already state that "Whilst some people may feel less comfortable because they do not accept transgender identity or perceive that trans people pose an increased safeguarding risk to others, this is not itself a legitimate or proportionate reason to exclude trans and gender-diverse people from using preferred toilets and facilities.", so you would need to correct the false assumption that the objection is to 'being trans' rather than to a person's biological sex) -

I realise that 'trans' also includes 'agender', defined as: "a term for individuals who are genderless or who reject gender identification completely." Reading their guidance, I clearly identify with this - some years ago I would have said I was a 'cis' woman but educating myself made me realise this is not a label I'm at all comfortable with, and as I reject gender identification, agender appears to match what I am.

Their definition of gender is as follows:

"People often use the terms ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ interchangeably when talking about a person being male or female, or masculine or feminine. However, ‘sex’ is recorded at birth and refers to a person’s biological status as either male or female, based on their physical attributes and external anatomy.

‘Gender’ refers to the characteristics typically associated with being feminine or masculine that are constructed by society. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy etc. as well as relationships with each other. Ways of understanding gender vary from society to society and can change over time. Gender identity is our own internal and individual sense of self as being feminine, masculine, a mixture of these, or rejecting current gender norms entirely."

I'm still a woman, as far as I can tell, as that means either 'female' or something else I'm unsure of. So if asked my sex, I would say I am a woman or female, but if asked about my gender I would say I am agender. Others may view my behaviour as masculine or feminine, but I believe that is irrelevant to anyone's sex, and that linking types of behaviour to sex is often sexist, regressive and not borne out by evidence. I don't believe that what 'society constructs' has much to do with my own individual sense of self - I have very little control over how others see me and judge my behaviour, except I suppose my clothes or haircut.

Bristol's policy clearly states that 'Transitioning’ is a term used to describe the steps an individual takes in order to live in their affirmed gender identity, which may be as a man, woman, non-binary, gender fluid or a-gender person.

'The steps' I have taken were more of an internal realisation rather than a deliberate change to my appearance - I don't personally believe my gender identity or lack of changes depending on what I feel like wearing - but it does appear that I have transitioned from a cis person to an agender one (although perhaps I was agender all along).

Is anyone else in the same boat? Do you feel comfortable as agender, even though that may be incorrectly presumed to mean you don't believe you have a sex? Do I need to tell my employer or anyone else?

OP posts:
HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 06/10/2022 11:19

Surely that is just accepting someone else's stereotype. Religious people cause those without religious belief negative words like heretics, infidels and heathens.

I do not believe in gender, I will not accept an imposed gender of agender to force me into a box within their belief system.

The same as I choose not to identify as an infidel because I don't believe in that mystical idea either

Hugocat1 · 06/10/2022 11:18

Oh wow. I’ve been labelled Agender!

So does that mean I am ‘cis agender’?

Fuck me someone is working really hard to erase the word woman.

IcakethereforeIam · 06/10/2022 11:16

If there are over 100 types of gender (and counting) I don't see how they can all be catered for. Do they intend to install litter trays for catgender?

I think if someone held a knife to my throat and said I had to pick a gender (assuming knifetothroatgender wasn't an option), I'd probably pick agender. But I'd deliberately misunderstand it, insist on having everything minuted and my pronoun would be chairmum.

MilesOfCarpetTiles · 06/10/2022 11:11

Fishandchipsupper · 06/10/2022 11:09

Well I don’t identify as anything. But I am a woman, the adult human female
kind.

So would you say you accept that you have a gender identity, or that you reject this?
Because if you reject gender identification, Bristol City Council says that falls under the definition of 'agender', like me!

OP posts:
Fishandchipsupper · 06/10/2022 11:10

And I’d also like to use sex based facilities, not facilities based on misogynistic gender stereotypes.

Fishandchipsupper · 06/10/2022 11:09

Well I don’t identify as anything. But I am a woman, the adult human female
kind.

Doona · 06/10/2022 11:01

Is there an agnostic gender identity? One that is broadly vague? That would be my identity.

MilesOfCarpetTiles · 06/10/2022 10:59

Gender identity is, or should be, separate from 'sexual feelings' though.

For nearly all interactions and experiences we go through, our sex (and gender) should be irrelevant. For those where sex is relevant (medical, political, safety, etc) the appropriate provisions should be made for each sex. (e.g. maternity policies at work).

Gender is largely irrelevant, except I guess in fashion.

I don’t really understand why anyone should ba concerned about how other people identify if it doesn’t impact on them.

Because this policy is being introduced to say that other people's gender identities means that spaces such as swimming changing rooms can now only be mixed-sex, so it does impact on everyone. I don't yet quite grasp how being agender factors into this.

OP posts:
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 06/10/2022 10:50

I don’t understand why anyone wants other people to know about their sexual feelings, really. How does this impact on how you behave or are treated at work, or indeed in most of the normal activités of life ( food shopping, filling up the car, watching tv, walking the dog).
I understand the process of ROGD in all its terrible implications, I understand about the delights of cross dressing, and I suppose the parading in bizarre sexualised costumes, but I don’t really understand why anyone should ba concerned about how other people identify if it doesn’t impact on them.

MilesOfCarpetTiles · 06/10/2022 10:44

I will add that even though the policy takes pains to ensure that they are including agender people in their use of 'trans', it does seem rather logically challenging that they keep using the term 'affirmed gender identity' to include those that don't have a gender identity - it's rather dismissive of agender people in my view. For example:

"Bristol City Council will support trans service users and citizens, including non-binary, gender fluid, or agender people, to use the facilities (such as toilets, changing and washing facilities) that best fit their gender identity." but also "Please Note: Although not all terms will be referenced throughout the document, this policy is applicable to people with non-binary, gender fluid or gender variant identities, including those who are a-gender."

I have long been asking on here and elsewhere how one identifies their gender, and this document actually seems to be the most helpful - do I embrace this identity or do I decide that not having a gender identity isn't really having a gender identity after all?

OP posts: