Cottaging

If you're using a screen-reader, here's the rest of Greg's Monkeypox advice in May.

The answer isn't shut down all these parties, tell gay men to stop having sex at them or dancing in close proximity to each other. It won't work. It hasn't worked for HIV or other kinds of infectious disease outbreaks among gay men. 4/

A friend has said this is what we do:
1. Don’t panic.
2. Don’t stigmatize.
3. Don’t suddenly become sex-negative.
4. EDUCATE men on what to watch out for.
5. Ask people to stay home if they’re sick or have some unusual lesion pop up (even if they aren’t planning to have sex).
5/^

"If we jump to 'cancel events and stop having sex,' we lose any hope of an effective response later if this doesn’t burn itself out." 6/

I still haven't got over how one man went from shouting at people for being weary of viral pandemic measures, to shouting that it was unreasonable to expect men to cancel social arrangements or keep apart at social events in response to monkeypox. In a week.

These tweets are only seven days apart.

Please can we keep this topic to homosexual male gay culture. It's an interesting topic and there is a lot of denial about it.

Oh man

keep going up that mountain

true trans is a phase many of us go through. What’s a ‘genuine’ trans person?

I think it’s kinda homophobic to deny something that has been a massive part of gay men’s history and gay men’s culture!

Gay men who aren’t into gay sex culture even have specific phrases and words to communicate that disinterest, such as ‘non scene’.

@Redqueenheart no what you are denying is male gay culture!
stop with insults 'homophobe' and NAGM and realize that gay men are different, have different values than you. Whether you like it or not the fact that post AIDS cottaging, saunas, anonymous encounters are still a major part of gay social life speaks to their likes and choices.
Frankly I don't care; it's not my problem . I'm not their mother. Gay men are free, in charge of their lives, as they should be.

History has been very cruel to gay men, especially those who are femme of centre.

History has been cruel to lesbians too, of course, especially the butch ladies, but a completely different type of cruelty.

The teenager was a homosexual because said teenager was male and fancied males and (as far as the 3 part documentary revealed) only males.

Those of us working off old definitions, where a girl is a female minor and a boy is a male minor find it a lot easier not to tie ourselves up in knots.

Come up with some sort of objective diagnostic criteria for gender identity (so brain scans, genetic sequencing etc) and I will reconsider and possibly revise my opinion, but while a girl gender identity remains a subjective feeling (and one that huge swathes of actual females don’t have) I don’t see how it can ever be a basis for pubertal blockade, wrong sex hormones and eventual genital amputation.

The sterilisation process begins with the pubertal blockade, so most advocates for child transition are supporting the sterilisation of minors, perhaps as a side effect, but the results are the same.

Anyway, to get back on topic, this thread is about homosexual male sexuality, which many detransitioners/re identified men come to deeply regret giving up.

Wow! Where did I say it was OK to sterilise gay and autistic people?

"Not all the kids caught up in this are gay (old homosexual definition)" thanks for the clarification 🙄
But you were sure the boy you saw on TV was gay. How could you tell? Serious question. In my opinion, you couldn't tell. And so what you said was transphobic. Feel free to explain to me how you knew that a boy who identified as a girl in a programme on TV was 100% WRONG about that and was actually gay.

There's just no need for it, or justification. Yes, TRAs are causing no end of serious problems. But how does it help to vilify trans people, most of whom are peaceable individuals who hate what's being done in their name?

‘Transphobic’ ‘bigot’ ‘fascist’ ‘racist’ ‘prudish’ ‘conservative’ ‘reactionary’ ‘nazi’…
None of these words frighten me any more.
There was a paedoacademic on the Mermaids Board of Trustees!
WPATH has a new ‘Eunuch’ section authored by men who trade online stories of child castration!

You can’t shut mothers up by calling us transphobes anymore.

And increasing numbers of transitioned adults agree. The trans orgs are a joke.

Not all the kids caught up in this are gay (old homosexual definition) but lots are, and lots are autistic too, and you will never convince me that it’s ok to sterilise gay and autistic people while they are still children.

@sashagabadon ·
''I was listening to a podcast with Louise Perry the other day and she made the point that if you want to see what male sexuality is like in all it’s glory look at the activities of gay men.''

This is a rather sweeping generalisation and smacks of homophobia.

Not all gay men behave in the same way. To suggest that if a man is gay they are automatically into casual sex, saunas and cottaging is completely inappropriate.

Equally you have heterosexual men that are into swinging, seeing prostitutes and other promiscuous sexual practices. While other men will find these practices inappropriate.

It depends on the individual, not just their gender or sexual orientation.

You say ‘transphobic’ I say ‘protecting minors from a pathway that leads to the amputation of their genitals’

Good to know you are so skilled that you can diagnose this

Haven’t you heard? The diagnosis requirement is now considered to be oppression. Team Trans are all about Informed consent and Self ID.

YOU are transphobic by 2022 standards, being a transitioned person won’t save you from those accusations.

and no, I don’t believe a teenager is capable of giving informed consent to become a medical patient for life.

@TheClogLady rent-a-butch auntie is so right. If those poor young German detrans lesbians had such mentors they would never have seen themselves as trans gay men.

In 2010 we still had older women in the lesbian community who would help and advise the newly come out (of any age) . It was great.
I knew as a girl effeminate boys from the country that came to the city and were gay men; fashion designers, in the arts, interior decorators etc

@MsBombastic555 hehe, I do think women are naive and kind about gay men. Name a gay MP who cares about women...

"- I remember watching a BBC3 programme about a boy who identified as a girl and it struck me that all that was really needed was a move out of extremely rural wales and into a big city where friendships could be made with other, similar GNC males."

Because being trans doesn't exist?? So it wasn't possible that this boy did, in fact, identify as a girl?? Good to know you are so skilled that you can diagnose this just from watching a TV programme. WHY is it necessary to make transphobic comments like this?

I think we all jump through hoops and so often end up excusing or minimising behaviours that have really nothing to do with orientation. (I'm not at all suggesting you are doing that here). I remember being appalled when I learned that the gay community commonly refer to these women as 'beards'. Plenty of misogyny there.

"You have been mentioned on the thread - cottaging" 😂 it's all downhill from here.

I think you have a point. My ex who I suspect has gay tendencies had a mysogynistic streak 🤔 still surely there must be some that genuinely care about woman's rights? A minority? It would be interesting to know when it all boils down to it how much they actually care about women. I think most women are too nice and naive to notice.

FWIW though, the husbands who transition in later life are not gay men, they don’t have a exclusive sexual orientation to other males.

The best theory to describe their interest in men, imo, is one that isn’t able to be discussed here because people who like the report button find it offensive.

Suffice to say, it’s entirely possible that the two ‘women’ told to turn it down at a lesbian comedy show may could be two transitioned males motivated by this particular paraphilia. Impossible to tell when some posters use ‘woman’ meaning ‘adult human female’ and some posters use ‘woman’ to mean ‘a human of either sex who claims to have a female gender identity’.

Strange times.

Interested that you consider that hoop jumping? I do tend to constantly reiterate stuff not being -phobic in an attempt to avoid a MNHQ smiting, I wouldn’t feel compelled to do so if it weren’t for the weird rules and external Eyes.

Totally agree re: transwidows voices. Very important to hear them and Tinsel does sterling work holding space for them, often amongst feminist groups (one of many reasons I prefer the SFW approach to the WPUK one).

@TheClogLady

Oh, one thing I do absolutely have an issue with is the men who are out having risky sex with other men with an unknowing wife/mother of child at home. I don’t care if that makes me unfashionable or judgemental, you can’t have cake and eat it if that means taking away someone else’s right to informed consent (same goes for straight men having affairs, no homophobia here).

It is fascinating the hoops you felt necessary to jump through here in order to justify your criticism of infidelity in marriage. Which is hardly a controversial or indeed overly conservative position, even by today's standards. I've been quite impressed by how the voices of trans widows have been acknowledged in the trans debates, considering the voices of gay widows have been largely ignored by the 'out and proud' narrative. (Although it was interesting how few bought the Scofield speil). This was brought home to me a couple of years ago (2 maybe 3?) when on a radio show the women?/producers? of the show deemed it necessary to mask the voices of the women who were telling their stories. All of them. The stories were not pretty and spoke to disturbing levels of misogyny that are largely airbrushed from the accepted narrative.

😂😂😂

Sure we can. And I know lots of men who are not interested in endless hook ups, and that includes gay men.

But in my experience, it's actually a lot more common for women to be totally naive about the gap that exists.

If you look at something simple, like the statistics on how many partners people have, for example. The majority of straight people and lesbians have a pretty small number of partners over a life, somewhere around ten if I recall correctly. There are a few in the next group up, with something like 10 to 30. But above that it gets much smaller very quickly. Very few straight people or lesbians have 100 partners, much less 500. When you see women with numbers like that they are usually involved in prostitution.

Gay men are a different story altogether and a lot of people are very shocked when they see the difference.

I think it's because many people have been exposed to activism that basically said or implied that there were no real difference of that kind between the two groups, and it was homophbia to think otherwise.

@ohthehorrorthehorror @MsBombastic555 when I came out my 2nd wave lesbian mentors told me they hated gay men, who were superficial and selfish, and who also despised us. We only got together on legal issues.
In all the years nothing has changed . Gay men do nothing to promote women's rights.