Men of the far right and the women's movement

There is no harassment of PP.

The Brighton feminists wanted to make it very clear that the SFW event was nothing to do with them and distance themselves from PP.

So the Brighton feminists haven't also then be involved in pressuring others who spoke that day ? Not even on Brighton feminist?

Have Brighton Feminists then officially distanced themselves from those women who have pressured or cross a line when pressuring Maya and Helen Joyce to denounce? No? Because I sense that Maya and Helen feel harassed by this time. And I certainly think that KJK felt harassed from the first tweet and her finding that sin list.

But.... obviously there is a 'low bar' for some and a very 'high bar' of when it crosses into harassment for others.

And harassed for what again, exactly? Let's be really clear again what was it that KJK did to deserve a 'sin list' and to be vilified?

Was she allowed to have a 'difference of opinion'?

It's occurred to me.

When people make these lists of why someone might oppose gender ideology, say 1) medical issues for kids, 2) homophobia, etc,

and is saying some of these are ok, and some aren't, I think maybe they are seeing all of these as totally discrete and exclusive. Which isn't really the case.

I don't think there is anyone opposed to it, including the far right and fascists, who are not concerned about the medical effects on kids, or the safety of women and girls. I know it might be shocking to some but even fascists have normal feelings for their kids, wives, mums, and so on. So really, if people are working towards that with a far right person they are likely all on the same page there.

But I think the Real Feminists have realized that gender ideology has revealed that some of the elements in movements around women's rights or gay rights may have been on weaker ground than others, and that scares them. Some of the stuff around the idea that differences in male and female behaviour, on a group level, being wholly socialized, for example. Or some of the "love is love" sloganing, or the assumption that by some that the law must always be sex blind.

These ideas have been questioned more by some people who didn't before. Personally, I think that is a good thing, movements always have some elements that are stronger than others and it's normal and healthy to shed the less robust stuff. You get a stronger set of ideas, more in touch with reality, at the end.

But I suspect this is what some of the Real Feminists may mean when they say that the Far Right will be spreading their ideas. They mean, they may point out some weaknesses in the Real Feminist, or actually in the left wing position. And people might listen. They might listen to a Jordan Peterson lecture and decide he isn't actually completely out to lunch.

As far as they are concerned that is being infiltrated by the far right.

Yes, Datun. Sappho may have realised what's wrong with gender ideology but she has yet to have fully shifted to a GC position. One foot on each side of the fence. It's untenable.

We’re on thread 3 (?) now and Sapphos and her friends are at the point of “let’s fling enough shit and see how much sticks”.

Datun, I think you called it.

Sappho, I think you're struggling with your loyalties. You stopped being a TRA, because you saw the damage being done. But I don't think you can relinquish allegiances, which is entirely understandable, but is providing a conflict.

I've never even heard of the Brighton feminists. Have they been on talk radio and American TV, Sky News and Piers Morgan, and quoted in mainstream media?

You don't need to make that distinction, because Posie makes it. There's no way she wants to be aligned. That's why she doesn't call herself a feminist. Its completely deliberate.

And the context of that remark was that she was goaded behind endurance and said it out of a sense of frustration. Which you were told before. She also qualified, afterwards, that she certainly didn't believe in forced sterilisation. Which you were also told!

It’s also important that the media and politicians don’t think the Brighton feminists agree with PP’s views on forced sterilisation etc.

But it is not important that media and politicians don’t see Brighton feminists as bullies, and as extremists themselves calling for denouncements as proof of purity?

Again. Good to know that Brighton feminists are not worried about being seen to be bullies and totalitarian.

How about that sin page for Julie? Got it started?

It’s also important that the media and politicians don’t think the Brighton feminists agree with PP’s views on forced sterilisation etc.

It's not important at all. It's irrelevant. The Brigton Real Feminists are irrelevant. The media and politicians don't care about you, because you are basically dancing to the TRAs' tune.

the opinions of the media and MPs are irrelevant to the courts.

The only opinions that matters are those of the judges/magistrates (and juries, where relevant).

‘Forced sterilisation’ is pure hyperbole.

There is no need to worry about healing a division. I worked that out ages ago when a group I was involved with who were at pains to use careful language also assumed everyone would agree with saying "tories are scum".

It is therefore important to make a distinction between feminism and PP as they are very different ways of thinking and very different types of activism.

I don't understand why you couldn't "make a distinction" by simply not going to PP's event. Why "making a distinction" means weeks long bullying and harassment of PP and shitting all over the women who spoke at her event.

It's bollocks, mate.

You don't want to "make a distinction" - you want to crush PP because she's doing something you are not smart or brave enough to try. You like the safety of your little group where nothing ever gets done except endless chatting about who's pure and good. You don't want to risk actually doing anything and you don't want PP to go ahead and make gains because that would spoil your little meander down a cul de sac.

And that's the charitable interpretation of your behaviour.

no one gives a flying fuck what TRAs think. They are not the ones people are trying to reach. It's the media and politicians who hold the power.

This.

And has your group started on the Julie Bindel sin list page?

At least it’s consistent with Saph not wanting to hear about negative outcomes of using donor gametes!

The feminists I know are supportive of all women and the female experience of pregnancy and childbirth, even if those women identify as men.

we have seen.

The potential harms of testosterone on a developing foetus have been pointed out to you. You continue to take a parent centred approach that is not child centred.

Do you acknowledge there is potential harm to the child? Or not?

Fine.

I’m going with whichever, wave, branch or rebrand of feminism puts the welfare of kids over the wants of adults.

let me know when The Real Feminists of Brighton have approved the paperwork and I’ll make the T Shirts.

The Fifth Column is a real thing and we shouldn't be so naive as to think the women's movement is free of such individuals.

That's why the honesty of women like KJK is so vital.

I completely agree. KJK has been made into some sort of bogeyman figure. Everything she does must have some sinister motive.

I may not agree with everything she says but she's really good at getting through to the normies who have no idea about what is going on in the gender ideology world.

Whatever she does is pounced on and yet she just keeps going, good for her.

It's bad enough that the TRAs do it but it's really disgusting that supposed champions of women's rights are doing it too.

Let me tell you something, the TRAs are never going to think that you're anything other than transphobic unless you completely capitulate to what they want. You can make as many sin lists to point at other people as you want. They will still hate you.

Sappho, as someone that was completely convinced by the TWAW brigade, until something bad personally happened to you (I notice you were fine with everything until it affected you, a lack of empathy for others, no?), do you think you could have been taken in again?

And I say that because we all have our moments and then come back together if we can.

Why would someone try to make it so hard to 'come back together'?

It is almost like creating an unhealable division is now the point. Unhealable for whom though? What would be the point in bricking up the boundary here?