Men of the far right and the women's movement

All this venom is just making feel even more estranged from the left.

That. It is becoming the case that I can't put a sheet of paper between the left's misogyny, homophobia and authoritarian loathing for anyone not like them or doing exactly what they say, and the TRAs. They're disappearing into a homogenous group.

And I'm not interested: it's women's existence, rights and equality, gay existence rights and equality, child safeguarding and a country free of extremist quasi religious nutjobbery led by a self appointed, madly intolerant elite that bothers me.

Oh for fuck's sake, I couldn't get past Mosley being invoked.

has Posie given many opinions about Islam? I thought it was because she saw seven-year-old girls walking past her house on the way to school wearing a hijab. And she disagreed. For the reasons that many people do.

is there anything else?

thanks for explaining 🙂 I agree

All this venom is just making feel even more estranged from the left. Deal with the beam in your own eye please (and I'm an atheist not evengelical adjacent)

Considering that article makes a point out of trying to make out that those two men were 'allowed' into some kind of inner circle, it needs to be pointed out, yet again as it has been already repeated consistently, it is very easy to get in and get a good spot.

Really! It is not hard to understand this once you have been a couple of times. Some arsey people could just walk up and push their way forward as well.

And if Jean and other's pushing and pushing this point don't know this, and don't understand this, why not? Is it because they have never actually turned up before? But are very keen to point out something that is not relevant? why?

Plus, there is now people pointing out that the people those pushing this 'inner circle' narrative are referring to the documentary makers. Who no one knows about either, although they DID get waivers signed. Those in the 'inner circle' were not the two men.

So, the reality is what? No one is now allowed to bring out a phone during the speeches except officially approved ones? How does that work in a public spot.

So no. There is a huge weight being 'carried' on those sentences saying the men were in the 'inner circle'.

And again, why did Jean Hatchet even have to make that implied accusation if she was not trying to slyly stir the pot.

Not to mention what an absolutely disgusting move it is to ignore the brilliant women who spoke at Brighton, who bravely stood up and found their voice in the face of hundreds of screaming and violent protestors, and told their stories of how this ideology is harming them and their kids.

And instead of applauding those women and amplifying their voices, feminists are doing their best to shut them down. Because a couple of blokes with a camera and questionable views turned up.

It's disgusting and I won't forget this.

Whilst that may be true, KJK isn't an organisation, or political movement, or an online forum, or anything other than herself and her personal desire to stop children being mutilated by trans ideology.

She's also mighty contemptuous of the people pushing it.

She's single issue about this. There's no room for anyone to talk about anything else. As she has just said on her YouTube channel, they're listening to me, I'm not bloody listening to them.

What she does is give a microphone to women who have been affected by this ideology. It's simple, and entirely ring fenced just to that. Even feeling creative, I can't imagine how fascistic political leanings would infiltrate it.

Do some women want to see women's rights movement destroyed because they're so pissed off and jealous that they aren't getting the headlines? Are they so willing to lie and feed the likes of spiteful Owen Jones rather than congratulate another woman?

After the last week or so, I think the only possible answer must be... yes.

Actually, I don't think they want the women's rights movement destroyed. Just Posie. The rest of us are just collaterol damage. They absolutely hate her. It's really pathetic. As the week has gone on, I've gone from raised eyebrows at some of the comments to being absolutely appalled by the endless bloody bullying and bullshit that's coming from the self-appointed feminist leaders. Why do they hate KJK so much? Because she's effective. And they are all now grifting off of opposing gender ideology. So if KJK (i.e. women) wins, they lose.

I didn't want to think it, but they keep on shoving it in our faces.

How does the thread unintentionally demonstrate it?

I was going to say the article demostrates it and then changed my mind at the last minute as I didn’t want to single out an individual for criticism! Oops. Honestly, I think the article is an example of the kind of power plays which have ruined many political parties, unions, knitting circles, small businesses etc. when the games start escalating. I think Posie’s right to avoid that by having a robust stance on free speech.

Exactly. Talk about staring you in the bloody face.

it's left-wing activists who want to shut women up and close down their campaigning. Not fucking fascists.

To regurgitate a classic meme:

I think it’s unreasonable to compare Standing for Women events with Twitter and Facebook as free speech platforms. Twitter, Facebook and the rest are all designed to keep us hooked and get money from adverts. Standing in a park once a month listening to some people talking isn’t the same. You’re a lot less likely to get the volume of extremists to take over.

Right wing authoritarianism versus left wing authoritariansim. Spot the difference. Right wing authoritariasm is easily identifiable and can be swerved. Left wing autoritarianism wears a cloak of moral virtue and more easily slips under the radar. But we see you.

I posted this on the Carly May Kavanagh thread earlier but it’s relevant here too:

We had a good ol’ try at changing the left from within, but at this point, it feels like being repeatedly punched in the face by our left wing MPs (who we have door knocked and leaflet dropped for) whilst simultaneously being DARVO’d by anonymous males in black uniforms who ^identify* as being US!

When you consider that the ‘antifascists’ are the nearest contemporary, western thing we’ve got to actual fascism it’s perhaps not surprising that they also use other words in a similar, reality-concealing manner. Prime example: ‘woman’

we’ve already been talking about right/left libertarian/fascism (and the left’s tendency to cry fascist at pretty much anyone to shut them down) on the Sarah Ditum thread for about a week.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4640337-sarah-ditum-on-posie-parker

Hearts of Oak aren’t Fascists.

Christian Right Wingers, sure, but actual Fascists? No.

Britain does still have a Facist org, the National Front. It’s been around since the 1970s and is down to around 29 members.

www.workersliberty.org/story/2022-07-23/rise-and-decline-national-front

This is really getting on my nerves now.

Hearts of Oak were not there with Posie Parker. That is an indisputable fact and it is beyond ridiculous to try to argue the pure fantasy they were.

Hearts of Oak have links with a prominent transactivist. The comments when they posted their video included the T word and other anti-woman abuse. If they were with anyone (which they probably weren't) they were with the transactivists.

Do some women want to see women's rights movement destroyed because they're so pissed off and jealous that they aren't getting the headlines? Are they so willing to lie and feed the likes of spiteful Owen Jones rather than congratulate another woman?

@TastefulRainbowUnicorn I don't follow your final sentence. Can you expand a bit? I'm not being provocative - genuine desire to understand. How does the thread unintentionally demonstrate it?

Excellent article.

Big Tech and many political parties (and unions, and book clubs, and student societies, and fandoms, and crafting communities) have also been subverted by people trying to police free speech.

As noted above, a lot of these people also have fascistic tendencies.

Given that the association being made in this thread between fascism and free speech is ahistorical (to put it very very mildly) if I were starting a political organisation I’d be more worried about the (fascist-adjacent) trying to police speech than the (fascist-adjacent) trying to exploit free speech. I think Posie is making the right call and this thread unintentionally demonstrates it.

Because tighter internet moderation has been working out SO well for women, hasn’t it?

😅

The ONLY reason we are even able to post about this topic here on Mumsnet is due to Justine’s commitment to speech as free as possible, while keeping the lights on at MNHQ and navigating the UK’s ridiculous ‘hate speech’ overreach, overreach that you seem to think doesn’t go far enough?

Despite our police already believing they have a right to ‘check our thinking’?

’No Thank You’

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/theres-conversation-has-be-had

The meeting was advertised in the official conference guide, but organisers said that party officials had refused their application for an exhibition stand at the conference venue.

This year’s 150 exhibitors include Sainsbury’s, the Falkland Islands, and His Majesty’s Government of Gibraltar, as well as the BBC, GB News and the Morning Star.

Oh. My. God. Labour Women's Declaration were denied an exhibition stand but GB News, that bastion of fascist broadcasting, was allowed?!?! 😱😱😱😱😱

What are we to make of this?? What's becoming of the Labour Party??

The issues on Facebook caused by lack of moderation that allowed the algorithms to excessively promote organisations like QAnon and the Proud Boys are well known. Zuckerberg doesn’t want to pay for the necessary moderation to keep hate speech off the platform, claiming that he’s all for free speech.

it happens again and again. It happened to Stonewall ffs! As is discussed on here all day everyday. Politics is a constant push-pull of competing interests, and there are some interests that know full well their route to mainstream success is only via parasitic latching on to other movements. Same thing has happened with entryists in both Labour and the Tories.

People can either take control of it and make it clear that fascists are not welcome, or cry “free speech, not my monkeys!” and watch as their movement gets destroyed from the inside.

Why the blatant covering up of all these left wing activists by hiding their political allegiance with leftist politics?

Well, quite, Nonny!

Quite a few of these balaclava clad left wing activists even identify as ‘left wing women’! They are claiming to be the same as the women who are attacking Posie!

I find far more sense in DJ Lippy’s analysis of the situation than I do in Jean’s.

makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/post/feminism-and-the-far-left-let-women-speak

Moreover, the idea of views that are WORIADS really worries me. Who gets to decide which views are WORIADS? Bad ideas don't go away because people are banned from speaking them, they are disinfected by sunlight, reason, and argument. The primary strategy in the genderism movement is still "no debate". It is because under scrutiny the arguments for genderism would not reach the level of WORIADS. They fall apart as incoherent and illogical.

Interesting line in the article:
Racist or homophobic views are not worthy of respect in a democratic society...

I await all those generally on the "progressive" left and feminists to loudly denounce and distance themselves from the flagrant racists in the Labour party. I have yet to see that happen.

Recent “Standing For Women” events have seen unpleasant and aggressive protests from trans activist thugs in black military style outfits and masks. ----> these are all left wing activists

These misogynist men are determined to silence women’s voices about the clash between women’s rights and ever increasing demands by trans activists. ----> these are all left wing activists

On Sunday, police kept a line between the women wishing to speak and the protesters wishing to drown them out with cries of “fascist”. ----> these are all left wing activists

At one point the female event stewards had to surround a woman in a wheelchair to protect her from the trans activists. ----> these are all left wing activists

A smoke bomb was taken from them by police and a man arrested; ----> these are all left wing activists; also a bloke had a bag of knives.

a trans activist screamed in the face of a man holding a baby and called it a fascist; ----> she works for a Labour MP

another woman from the protest threw glitter in a black woman’s dreadlocks. ----> these are all left wing activists

When are feminists and other left wing people going to clear these kinds from their midst? They are present in every left wing and activist group and within the Labour party, Green party etc.

Why the blatant covering up of all these left wing activists by hiding their political allegiance with leftist politics?

But @TheLeadbetterLife KJK has already set boundaries by allowing women to speak at these events, women only. Then gay men if there is time, then supportive men. The women speak on this issue. There is no space at the bar for anyone discussing anything not related to this issue. It is single issue. There is no general discussion on other topics.