Men of the far right and the women's movement

Why is it the wrong tactic to fight for what you believe is right, no matter who may share your views?
It sure is a more effective tactic than battling everyone who doesn‘t subscribe to your general world-view but supports this one common issue.
Or is effectiveness not the goal?

So say that.

’We won’t be attending the event as we do not agree with Posie’s position on open access events’

Job done. No bullying, no smearing, no making left wing feminists look indistinguishable from TRAd

If they were forced to agree with PP and / or punished for not agreeing with PP that would be fascism.

well, no, that would be authoritarianism but not actual fascism.

luckily no one is forcing anyone to agree with Posie (although surely we DO all agree that men can’t be women and transing kids is bad and women need single sex services?)

what we are saying is that trying to smear everyone who works with Posie or who likes Posie or who has spoken at a Posie event as a fascist is a) stupid b)bullying and c)making the last bit of the left that we thought was sensible look just as unhinged as the TRAs.

Women and feminists sit down, shut up and go along with something that makes them deeply uncomfortable?

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Anyone - including fascists, TRAs, and feminists - can film anyone - including fascists, TRAs and feminists - a public space.

If that makes someone uncomfortable, be they fascist, TRA or feminist, then that person should not perform in a public space.

There absolutely should be non-public events, and even totally unfilmed events, for women who are uncomfortable with the level of exposure they would get at a KJK rally. The best thing you can do for people who are uncomfortable is to create new spaces where they would be comfortable.

We can't make the public square such a "safe space" though. (And by "can't", I mean we couldn't even if we wanted to).

Sorry for double post, thought my phone ate the first one.

What tactics? Allowing members of the public to film her?

What tactics? I'm not being obtuse, I really want to know what it is she's done that is wrong.

Can these threads get any more bonkers?

who is dictating ‘forced agreement’?

Who are the ones with a page where sins are listed and are misrepresented?

Well, in order to achieve change one has to make broad coalitions, and that will always include people who have very, very different world views. Obviously it is important to remain in the driver‘s seat. Also, one shouldn’t get side-tracked because ‚the wrong people‘ express sympathies.

As a politics geek I read through Putin‘s whole annexation-speech and almost spit my coffee when, I shit you not, he started to bemoan sex reassignment procedures for children and the idea of many genders (In a speech held in the context of the annexation of Ukrainian oblasts!). He also threw in some anti-colonial rhetoric for good measure. Who knows why he did it and feminist he is clearly not.

Anyway, I can already see how people will eviscerate gender-critical and anti-medical-child-transition (and anti-colonialism?) positions as ,siding with Putin‘. It is all very silly.

Well, yes, that's clearly the only safe way. And of course, never go out, never stand anywhere near anyone else in case they have views our overlords don't approve of and you become mystically aligned to them by physical proximity. And of course you should never talk to anyone before they've answered a short 50-question survey on their politics and beliefs and have passed the virtue test, otherwise you could be accused of fraternising with the enemy. Kafka missed a trick on this one, didn't he?

This is why people hate the Labour and the 'progressive' left. There's another thread currently

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4645590-to-ask-what-people-have-against-labour?page=13&reply=120431463

in which it's clear a lot of people are sick of Labour's 'I am good and virtuous and occupy the moral high ground and if you don't agree with me you're Tory scum' position. It's a way of preventing free speech.

What is the 'something' they are going along with, Sappho?

What's the alternative?

Women and feminists sit down, shut up and go along with something that makes them deeply uncomfortable?

The alternative is to stop banging on about it and trying to force struggle session denunciations, and move on.

Well, as I said, if I have ever walked past anyone with views I disagree with, I hereby denounce them. I'm sure all right thinking women will join me in doing so.

I agree Arabella. This is all bonkers now.

I think the pig needs feeding and I have to collect fascists so the pig can work out what they smell like.

I for one repent of my sins and renounce the devil and all false prophets!

Why does anyone have to denounce a person for filming them?

It's madness.

For one thing, it neatly ensures the denouncer will be forever referred to as: 'the feminist who was forced to denounce links to the far right'.

For another, being filmed is not something anyone has control over so how on earth is it logical that they have to distance themselves from it, any more than they'd have any responsibility for the views if any random person walking past in the street?

Can organisers be issued with the exact acceptable words of denouncement, by the way?

Because just how much more time and effort will be lost after another event where the women speaking should have been centred because the organisers and women speaking didn’t say the acceptable denouncements.

And if this suggestion is considered ridiculous, should I continue to train the pig?

Anyone can chat to KJK, she's very approachable. You could have done yourself.

As has been suggested on numerous threads now already.

The fact that one of those rumoured ‘two men’ filming was actually a women and not a man makes this even more complicated. So, are we now going to go around and ask the affiliation of every woman who had their camera out now too?

It was also a great analysis that showed how easy it was to get into that ‘inner circle’ that people used to imply ‘welcoming’. I have said on at least 3 threads now, anyone can just walk up and set up and Alf’s video showed just that.

So, effectively, we are back to ‘denouncing’ since we now cannot ‘prevent’ people who are not actually aligned from filming.

Great. So, Sappho has your group issued a run sheet on how these events now should work? A suggested list of denouncements and what time and how often will be enough?

Can we have that in time for the ForWomenScotland event please?

Or can we all go back to common sense and believe that Kellie Jay Keen and any other organizer of these women’s events are not ‘aligned’ with those groups and that at public events they cannot restrict who records in anyway the event.

Looking forward to the official feminist run sheet of denouncment for acceptance so we can at least know what hoops organisers need to do in addition to: notify and work with Police/councils to hold events, get female security wardens in place, not bad down from 100s of screaming protestors who are warning over social media they are going to shut up women whatever it takes, and the list goes on.

Yep. The only people who were doing nothing wrong, centring women, publicising the attack on women's rights and listening to women's experiences were Posie and her followers.