is our aim protecting our sex based rights or is the issue our political leanings?

Our aim should be to protect women and children from male violence. No loopholes.

Some TWAW type asked Jess Phillips why she had not included dead transwomen in her list of murdered women.

The truthful answer? No dead transwomen to report, in the UK. For a few years now.

So let's all join hands now and shout "Hurray!" that there are no dead transwomen in the UK for the past few years. That is good. Transwomen are not being killed at anything even vaguely like a rate of two per week.

In the meantime. Two women are killed by men every week. Not transwomen - women.

Every year a Labour MP, Jess Philips(?) reads out the names of the women who have been murdered by domestic violence that year so they are documented by the government and are not forgotten or nameless.

Hate crimes are an interesting point.

I think that quite a few people on the left who used to think they were a good idea have now come to the conclusion that maybe, actually, they weren't.

So not a reason to vote Labour, or avoid voting Tory.

Most people's views aren't really some kind of purist academic ideological position.

And for that matter, the LP and the CP are both mish-mashes of different ideological approaches. They've both been significantly affected by liberalism, and globalism. The LP has become very beholden to bourgeoisie values and the Conservatives OTOH now seem to be the more interested of the two in working class issues. This seems to follow that pattern of similar parties internationally.

So I tend not to see voting for mainly ideological reasons as making much sense. I can find things I like and dislike across the political spectrum. I think that's common, even for people who tend to vote most of the time for the same party.

But right now what worries me most about parties like the LP is not just their commitment to gender ideology. I look at what has happened here in Canada, and you can see that it is not just about that, it's about a kind of moral puritanism that is very comfortable with becoming authoritarian and undermining the basic rights of liberal democracy, that is deeply committed to identity politics that are destructive and IMO deeply racist, and totally at the mercy of whatever lobby groups manage to catch their interest.

Even a really shit economic plan is better than that, from my perspective.

I don't really think this is something The Patriarchy started. Women seem to be quite good at on their own.

What would it take? A lot of changes. Making misogyny a Hate Crime would help, but the Conservative Party said "No".

I don't want to sound cynical, but I'm afraid I think our society is so soaked in misogyny, women's second-class status is so deeply ingrained, that even when people become aware of the issues there is no will to do anything about it.

Two women a week murdered in the UK, and we're not rioting in the streets? Rape effectively decriminalised. So, what would it take?

Self ID was not dreamt up by Civil Servants. It was put together by a cross parliamentary group headed by Caroline Nokes, Conservative MP. It was then made policy by Conservative PM Theresa May.

What's with the minimisation of the Tory party role in this?

People need to understand how government works. The civil service (which doesn't change at election) are key to those sort of laws. They draft up the policies and have it ready for the new minister to sign off. The civil servants are signed up to Stonewall campaigns and they deliberately leak stuff (like conversion therapy) to try to stop ministers reversing those policies.

The primary reason for the Self ID fiasco, is the Conservative Party policy of Self ID, introduced by Theresa May, championed by Caroline Nokes and Penny Mordaunt. Followed by what has been happening in our prisons, hospitals and yes, the Tavistock.

Self ID is a human rights disaster that undermines equality law, erases womens rights, undermines safeguarding, and
enables homophobia.

I am v new to GC thinking, and this, + clinics like Tavistock GIDS' appalling practice are the primary reasons

Yes well your party has betrayed you if you look at their manifestos vs what they’re doing. I don’t blame voters, I blame the MPs who are abusing the trust they were given.

It isn't just the NHS who are removing the words mother and woman. When the HoL returned the new Maternity Bill to the Commons, Penny Mordaunt (then a minister, now The Leader of the Commons) criticised the proposed ammendments at the Despatch Box and declared TWAW and TMAM.

This wasn't Twitter or IG, this was Penny Mordaunt, Conservative MP, speaking in Parliament on behalf of the Conservative government.

This is the 'wait until it's absolutely certainly definitely proven to be a problem before acting' argument.

Thats not my argument. My argument is a don’t throw the baby out with the bath water argument. And also don’t trust the Tories. They may promise you they will over-turn self ID, but their track record especially in recent years has been a trail of broken promises.

I’m a Tory, I’m appalled at the last budget, Kensian trickle down economics didn’t work last time and they won’t work this time. I email companies with Gender Critical views. I think Tony Blair and John Major’ were excellent Prime Ministers. I wish Rishi was PM as he has good economic sense. I strongly support abortion at all times and have had two. I support Sex Matters , BPAS and the Trussell trust. I’ll never become a socialist as it seems to narrow minded and caught up in philosophical arguments about a non existent rather than dealing with the world as it is.
Am I a baddie or a goody?

Yes, arguing back against it. Fighting against the tide, while the captured institutions including the NHS are removing the word 'mother' and 'woman'. It's currently like turning a speeding tanker around, and the message those arguing back are being told is 'you can't say that'. 'Its wrong to use that language'. And yes, there is much whinging, it's perfectly obvious on a daily basis in articles, comments, Twitter, Fb..... it's widespread pressure to change the language.

This is the 'wait until it's absolutely certainly definitely proven to be a problem before acting' argument. We've lost a hell of a lot of ground due to this kind of well intentioned thinking unfortunately.

it’s trying to make one issue into the mother of all issues.

<Shrug> YMMV.

This isn't a group think unit, we're all going to have different views on this. But to me, I can see how very plainly this is the mother of all issues for women, for homosexuals, for child safeguarding, it extends into disability rights and access, it extends into equality and inclusion law, it extends into way too damn much and it is part of a fundamental corruption I find terrifying.

I am a floating voter, unaffiliated to any party. I'm politically homeless, but will vote for the party I see as least dangerous.

@ImherewithBoudica
it's currently very unfashionable to admit that the massive, massive majority of those caring for children and worrying about where the next meal is coming from and the even more massive majority of single parents are female. There are specific issues affecting females. But we're not allowed to say that, because not naice.

But we are allowed to say that…otherwise why are there dozens of published articles saying just that with zero outcry or whinging to the media outlets by TRAs to take down the articles or change the language in them?

To be clear, I am an independent voter and usually vote Green or LibDem. I’m not a loyal Labour voter by any means. The fact I don’t agree with the Tories and probably never will, doesn’t mean I’m a Labour voter. They have serious issues as a party as well that I also cannot get past.

I am just concerned at the narrative encouraging women that voting for Tories is good for us as a class. It really isn’t. Labour isn’t either, but that doesn’t force anyone to vote Tory.

you don’t need a classification label of mother or father or woman or man to be able to protect or help people in need.

If you read the post I was replying to, the discussion was how do we help single mothers in the coming poverty, because as you illustrate, it's currently very unfashionable to admit that the massive, massive majority of those caring for children and worrying about where the next meal is coming from and the even more massive majority of single parents are female. There are specific issues affecting females. But we're not allowed to say that, because not naice.

That's the pettifogging that is doing the exact damage I'm talking about.

I'm afraid it's about 5 years too late now to talk about 'hyperbole', women were accused of dramatizing all this from the start and it's all happened plus a whole lot worse. If we've learned nothing else from the unholy mess that the GRA is, it is that you have to look, and look and look some more for unintended consequences because we live in a time when someone will exploit it as far as it is possible to exploit.

It may already be too late. I don't think women's rights to single sex spaces will even exist at the end of this Tory term.

It’s one right. Yes it impacts on other rights, but it’s still one right.
Still not worth trading a bunch of other rights for imho.