is our aim protecting our sex based rights or is the issue our political leanings?

Stop being so bloody rude.

A heartening post. Must admit I’ve been feeling dispirited by the in-fighting.

Particularly agree with the debt we owe the women who speak out at great cost to themselves.

🙄

I'm fairly sure many people in the UK have managed to not encounter anything about this named person in the course of their everyday humdrum little lives.... how is this a helpful response?

I'll take a guess that 'very fucking privileged' in fact means "I hereby decree grounds to say you have no right to a voice so shut up." Useful #nodebate little catchphrase there.

Another day of Tories in power.
Another sex offender being reported as a woman and going to a women's prison.

We need to stop believing their lies and look at their actions.

@ImherewithBoudica
If you are from the UK, you must be very fucking privileged not to know who TR is .Lucky you eh ?

@FernlovingNodosaur a real working class Labour woman?Do you have a whippet and pie or are you actually taking the piss. Try 35 years membership ,until 2 years ago when the denouncement of WPUK by the Labour leadership candidates finally did it for me. I sit here as a disabled ex public sector worker, skint in a council house in a shitty South East council estate. Is that REAL enough for you ? I want to desperately go home to my home town but circumstances and money doesn't allow it. So do I win in the who's more working class game? Are you really playing that?
Yes the masked wee thugs are wee arse holes - I'm not suggesting playing fucking table tennis with them but I still wouldn't turn them over to Tommy Robinson and his thugs.

Ok, I don't even know who Tommy Robinson is.

So before I google, I'll just check:

Should I now run around like a headless chicken and re think whether I agree women should have equality and access in this country, whether homosexual people should have equality of rights and access without hounding and harassment, whether child safeguarding should not be conditional on the subjective feelings of a male, whether institutional capture and religious zealotry is a very dangerous way to run a country?

Because if I act on a belief of that, and that as a voting priority, I could feasibly be described as aligning myself with this bloke, of which I know nothing at all? And that's ...... bad?

Seriously?

Live4week. I would personally say that a fair portion of MP's today from all parties are career politicians. Self serving people will, unlike those who genuinely believe in a cause, align themselves at that particular time to the cause that they think will be most beneficial to them. My understanding is that Jess Phillips did nothing, when her fellow Labour females women work colleagues were thrown under the bus for simply stating biological truth and standing up for women.

Does that include appearing on a panel with Tommy Robinson where an acceptable person also on the panel might agree on one thing and one thing only? But who presents a very different motivation.

And proceeds to then disagree on everything else that Robinson might say?

Is that ok? Or because that footage might be seen by Tommy Robinson supporters, even if it was on the BBC, that acceptable person should either not say anything, or not appear?

And isn’t this just ‘no debate’ ?

But what does 'working with' Tommy Robinson even mean? What examples of 'working with' Tommy Robinson are being discussed on this thread?

I should make it clear I am not the 'we'.

I want no part of it.

I think my take from all these posts is:-

If Tommy Robinson gets us what we want then we will work with Tommy Robinson in this area.

I also want to know, are there any suggestions as to how to futureproof the 'associations' of now?

How long did it take for Stonewall to be a 'problematic' association again? Or is it ok as long as people say, 'Stonewall, pre 2015'?

Some very good sense posts on this page.

There is a definite feel of people here explaining their concerns with a party - any party - with certain ideals, policies, attitudes - and being met with a response not engaging with 'these issues make a party unelectable to me' but just stuck on 'but no good person would ever vote Tory'.

Tribal politics have long since had their day, and getting stuck on mantras and high ideological beliefs about people and purity according to their voting instead of facts and reality and capacity to cope with civil disagreement and discussion to find shared points of view forward were what caused the current situation.

Women and homosexuals don't have the time right now to make sure the funding streams and voices that help are only coming from those passing the Right Sort of Person test, this is a serious crisis across politics with a massive impact and risk to the future of many other groups and for the way this country is governed in terms of political capture, politicised police, the belief in male sexual rights trumping other people's equality of consideration and care, the belief in punishing and silencing those with other faith based beliefs, a politics based in a quasi religious faith that sees facts and reality as 'hate' to be suppressed - anyone with a basic grip on history should be seeing the red flags in every direction at this point. It's an all party approach needed, and we can all sort out who's on whose christmas card list when we're on safer ground.

For every extreme right woman you bring into the fold, you lose considerably more left / right wing women who abhor the extreme far right (as well as the extreme far left!)

Have we worked out yet just who are the extreme right women in the UK?

And as others have asked, have we worked out just where the line is for fascism here in the UK? And is it different to the rest of the world?

I have yet to see any convincing definition of this, yet I see so those words 'far right' and 'fascist' being thrown around with passion.

It matters to me that single mothers get sufficient benefits to keep children out of poverty.

I keep seeing this hopeful, faith-based idea that Labour would be kinder to the poorest people on social security benefits. Unfortunately, it's not true. Check Labour's official twitter account - not one word about the changes to universal credit but a couple of forelock-tugging god save the k- posts. Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has spoken out several times on her intention to crack down on benefit claimants. Labour said nothing about legacy benefits claimants not getting the UC uplift and next to nothing about the UC uplift ending. Even in the 2019 manifesto under 'caring' Corbyn there was no extra funding or rises wharsoever for welfare. As someone on carer's allowance and UC, please spare me the comforting fairy tales you tell yourself to justify your political position.

Anyway, back to the thread. I really don't understand this gleeful self-flagellation over who Posie Parker may or may not have stood within 20 metres of a right winger while in a public place. The only verifiable link Hearts of Oak has is to an actual transactivist and we're just dancing to the TRA tune by forgetting their mob was full of racists, 3 of them got arrested, they assaulted several women and one of them had a bag of knives - he was on their side, let's not waste time debating if he just turned up, he joined them, imagine if it had been our side. They're laughing at us now. Even if the far right was there, it was just to make capital from their behaviour the way libs of tik tok (? Something like that) on twitter does.

Left wing has as much history of suppression and brutality as right wing. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot anyone?

This bears repeating. Plenty don't know much history it seems.

The issue is that actual fascists were at the Standing for Women talk and none of the supporters seems to have an issue with that.

What as opposed to the aggressive, threatening, baby-screamers? What's the working definition of 'actual fascists' by the way? Just for my records.

I agree that word is about as devalued as transphobe now and that's saying something.

I'm not sure why we're holding people to account for others 'being there'? It was a public place, how were they supposed to stop them?

Left wingers on here are showing their inability to get past party politics, as ever.

Thanks, ladies, this is one centrist voter becoming more and more scared by Labour and its supporters.

There was no way to identify or remove the 'fascists', PP doesn't vet attendees!However, in democracy, it would seem to be that people, all people, are allowed to come and watch an open air event, peacefully.

There is only one side trying to dictate who gets to speak AND to listen. Just like left wing dictatorships have done throughout the 20th century. Left wing has as much history of suppression and brutality as right wing. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot anyone?

Left wing politics are no more virtuous or compassionate than right wing, stop imagining you're the good side because you're on the left, your superiority complex is showing.

This.

It's not for me to keep quiet so the Left don't look bad; it's for the Left to stop being fucking stupid.

People with a broad right wing / conservative agenda recognise a vote winning bandwagon when they see it. We are all intelligent enough to spot them. If the left keeps insisting on shutting out women's voices on this completely non- political issue, they are going to keep showing up and chancing their arm.
It's not our job to make them reasonable on other issues. It's not our job to shut up for fear that their bollocks gets heard when we speak.

Quite.

Not sure I can comprehend that at all.

I don't even think it will help get the message across. For every extreme right woman you bring into the fold, you lose considerably more left / right wing women who abhor the extreme far right (as well as the extreme far left!)

While there are certainly Conservative MP's now that do women no favours, there are also plenty of now Labour MP's that do exactly the same and want a halo for it. Labour's Jess Philipps being a prime example.

I think this is an unfair comment. Jess does a lot of good work for females as do others who may not be GC.

Just because you don't agree with them on one area does not negate the good that they do.

Cheekymaw Actually stances like yours to antelopevalley about those poor "misdirected" left leaning souls, AKA narcissistic violent women hating men in masks. (with the odd virtue signaling adult baby shouter handmaiden type thrown in) are one of main the reasons I, as a real older working class woman dislike the now Labour party soo much. Also the vast majority of my working class friends, and quite a few of those are from so called minority backgrounds feel the exact same way.

While there are certainly Conservative MP's now that do women no favours, there are also plenty of now Labour MP's that do exactly the same and want a halo for it. Labour's Jess Philipps being a prime example. Reads out aloud in parliament the names of all those poor women who have been murdered recently in the UK, but actively supports Labours stance on removing the right of that same group being so seriously mistreated (WOMEN)to be named out loud for all to hear.

@Ohnohedident You :" bad lefty/middle class feminists are being mean to PP,we can't have that. CM you said alt right that means you are a lefty and mean to Posie. Posie is wonderful and makes great stickers.WPUK scowl at us and don't make good stickers because we vote Tory. Bad nasty lefty person slagging us off for being Tories and working with right wingers.

Something along those lines?

@antelopevalley absolutely the wee baw bag TRA baby shouters - annoying and destructive that they are, are a bunch of brainwashed, probably spoiled, misdirected students compared to the actual fucking fascists that were there!

The “ actual fascists “ were the wee bawbags, Aunt Lydias & violent wee shits who shouted at a baby, threw smoke bombs, screamed at women & carried knives.