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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman walked in on in Primark changing room

108 replies

itwasntmetho · 24/09/2022 23:58

twitter.com/mummabeeblu/status/1573690566889570307
Poor girl, she supports mixed sex changing because "everyone feels included" but she recommends that lone females don't use it for their own safety.
Using a fitting room shouldn't be like walking home in the dark, if you need your wits about you then women have lost something.

OP posts:
itwasntmetho · 26/09/2022 15:57

Thousands of years of existence of the human species has created extremely strong survival instincts and for women that means being on guard against men they don't know but we are being told we're bigots if we don't override our instincts to be safe to accommodate men in spaces where we are undressed and vulnerable.

I wonder whether survival instincts are as much a part of the apologising as the female socialisation is. We know that a male is more likely to have a fight/ flight reaction and a female a freeze/ fawn. I wonder if it's a form of appeasement when we have a fright.

OP posts:
ImherewithBoudica · 26/09/2022 15:27

I'll wait (and open the betting book now) for the case in court where an assaulted woman is told in court by the defense something along the lines of: "you knew that it was an inclusive changing room and you chose to go in there and take your clothes off, so you were asking for it weren't you?"

In the same way that walking home alone in the dark or wearing a short skirt is seen as putting your biology in the path of some poor male who couldn't possibly be expected not to make use of it.

I used to think inclusive was a positive word.

Rainbunny · 26/09/2022 14:36

I get so angry about women being made to feel ashamed as though they are bigots for wanting to feel safe. Thousands of years of existence of the human species has created extremely strong survival instincts and for women that means being on guard against men they don't know but we are being told we're bigots if we don't override our instincts to be safe to accommodate men in spaces where we are undressed and vulnerable.

The vast majority of the public are law abiding but we don't leave our front doors unlocked when we go out do we? We don't think people who lock their doors are being bigoted and discriminatory towards their neighbours and general community do we? But women have no right to be safe these days.

Bosky · 26/09/2022 13:13

ps. some Twitter accounts that have posted the video in the OP have already been suspended. (Wonder who reported such a helpful PSA for women who might be thinking of shopping at Primark?)

As long as it is up, you can download it here if you want to:
video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1573690422278455296/pu/vid/576x1024/ynVVUGURkis0P9FQ.mp4?tag=12

Bosky · 26/09/2022 13:03

👇
Massive thread of Primark incidents: sexual assaults on young girls, upskirting, women and girls being filmed in the changing rooms and the footage ending up on porn sites:

twitter.com/SuzzanBlac/status/1453001944373604367

There have been umpteen "Boycott Primark" campaigns and it has made no difference. Most people still don't know and it might be the only affordable clothing shop in town for some women.

Maybe WRN "Shoppers" and/or SFW Local Groups need to think about handing out leaflets outside Primark instead of leaving them in the stores?

I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything I wouldn't be prepared to do myself, I just think this needs a concerted effort to get it in to their thick heads that we have had enough of this shit. Fleeting boycotts and the occasional protest here and there is just water off a duck's back to them.

Of course it will be painted as "anti-trans", the Inclusive Crowd do not give a flying feck about policies that EXCLUDE women and girls: self-exclusion is the only way for them to stay safe from predatory men. (It's not all about YOU, trans peeps! 🙄)

We are not lacking in facts and evidence - what we ARE lacking is them paying the slightest attention to us.

Primark is putting women at risk
Women's Rights Network Response to Viral Video on Voyeurism.
Press Release 25th September 2022
www.womensrights.network/primark-voyeurism

Unisex changing rooms put women in danger
Our investigation shows single-sex facilities are far safer
Andrew Gilligan
Sunday September 02 2018, 12.01am, The Sunday Times
archive.ph/threadreaderapp.com/thread/1453001944373604367.html

Unisex changing rooms put women in danger
22nd February 2021 by FPFW
fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger/

Advice to service providers about female-only changing rooms
15th May 2019 by FPFW
fairplayforwomen.com/changing_rooms/

SINGLE SEX SPACES - WHY?
www.womensrights.network/single-sex-spaces

Single sex services
Single sex services are critical for inclusion. Vulnerable women in particular rely on specialist women’s services such as refuges and rape crisis centres. Everyday services such as changing rooms and hospital wards provide dignity and privacy for all.
sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/single-sex-services/

sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/single-sex-services/#publications

Stats for Sex Segregation
"Propensity to Sexually Offend"
i) female ii) male iii) transgender populations of England & Wales
www.sexsegregatedprisons.info/

Women are Human - Clare Dimyon articles
Crime stats
www.womenarehuman.com/author/clare-dimyon/

Woman walked in on in Primark changing room
Woman walked in on in Primark changing room
ScrollingLeaves · 26/09/2022 12:49

Poor thing.She was clearly shaken up. For it to happen twice in a row was just horrible. Nasty, circling piranha fish outside her curtain.

Does this say it all about young girls? Accommodating to the nth degree the very people and attitudes that may cause harm to themselves?

No wonder they are getting depressed living as they are with these contradictions.

Clymene · 26/09/2022 12:36

DadJoke · 26/09/2022 12:21

Unisex changing rooms need lockable doors, not curtains. I'd argue that all changing rooms need this.

Women need spaces without men to change in. Then we don't need lockable doors.

DadJoke · 26/09/2022 12:21

Unisex changing rooms need lockable doors, not curtains. I'd argue that all changing rooms need this.

Whowhatwherewhenwhynow · 26/09/2022 09:20

I wish people wouldn’t use the term inclusion I such a basic way. Inclusion doesn’t mean everyone gets to access every service/space/activity. It means people access things ‘fairly’ in a way suitable for their needs…..sometimes that means a group of people having a space to themselves.

this basic misunderstanding of what inclusion means is a big issue!!!

Ofcourseshecan · 26/09/2022 08:45

Twinsmummy1812 · 25/09/2022 11:08

I went to the ladies loo at a motorway service station last week and when I came out of the cubicle I could immediately feel a charged atmosphere. I looked around and a man had walked in the entranceway. A couple of women were standing in front of him and one said something (presumably pointing out he was in the ladies or asking him to leave). He looked a bit confused, although you clearly had to walk past the gents to get to the ladies and he left. I know this sounds like hyperbole but I was proud of that atmosphere, not an eyes down acceptance, not wanting to make waves. At least a dozen women just standing stock still in a flash of solidarity. I suspect there will be a backlash to complete inclusion and it’s coming.

Good news. We need to hear more about this kind of thing. Well done to all you women who resisted.

Rightsraptor · 25/09/2022 20:50

This is on Free Speech Nation now with Andrew Doyle.

FemaleAndLearning · 25/09/2022 20:19

If you would like to write here is the head office address.
www.headofficefinder.co.uk/primark/amp/

unwashedanddazed · 25/09/2022 15:25

Thingybob · 25/09/2022 11:51

That tweet wasn't in response to the woman assaulted as it was posted on the 22nd, more than 24 hours before the video surfaced.

I don't understand what the tweet was about though

Sorry didn't spot that date. My eyes went to the responses below which were about the video.

bythere · 25/09/2022 15:16

Changing rooms should be pretty straightforward, all adults of the same sex and only very young children of the opposite. This way no one's safety and privacy is compromised. But no unisex/mixed sex/all gender or whatever else.

Musomama1 · 25/09/2022 15:01

unwashedanddazed · 25/09/2022 10:40

So Monsoon gets one tweet from a tearful young man upset that he can't use the women's changing rooms, in response they declare all changing rooms open to everyone and, here, have a free dress crying boy, we'll get the nasty ladies under control for you.

Primark has been trending since yesterday, currently on 22k tweets. Absolute silence.

When will women get the same power and influence as a single teenage boy?

Great point.

I guess safeguarding spaces for young girls is just not trendy PR at the moment - like opening up spaces to enby males.

deedledeedledum · 25/09/2022 13:32

Unisex changing rooms and curtains don't belong together. Either fully closing and locking doors with no gaps or single sex

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 25/09/2022 13:20

Oops sorry, hadn't realised that was a 2015 article. So just the 3 occasions this year that have been made public.

Ahf22 · 25/09/2022 13:13

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 25/09/2022 12:54

And here's another one so that's 4 occasions we know about where women have been violated in Primark changing rooms this year

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11872062.pervert-who-took-photos-of-teenage-girl-in-primark-changing-room-put-on-sex-offenders-register/

thats from 2013!! Has this shit been going on for this long?! Shame on primark and all the other retailers (looking at you M & S) allowing this in the name of “inclusion”. Literally a load of bollocks.

Mmmmdanone · 25/09/2022 13:11

Keery · 25/09/2022 09:10

Clymene · Today 06:42

silentpool · Today 01:03

The only way to guarantee your safety and privacy is to try clothes on at home. Sad but true.

No, it's to have single sex changing rooms again.

That still wouldn't guarantee safety unfortunately, due to the number of employees on the shop floor being slashed by retail most changing rooms no longer have a dedicated staff member overseeing them.

But men would be obvious and hopefully challenged in a women's only changing room. That should at last reduce the number that would attempt anything.

Crimeismymiddlename · 25/09/2022 13:07

If laws allow mixed sex changing rooms they must also demand locking to the floor doors.
There was research a while back on how women and children are more likely to be attacked in certain public areas, one of those areas being mixed sex changing villages at swimming pools. I don’t see how mixed changing rooms are any different.

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 25/09/2022 12:54

And here's another one so that's 4 occasions we know about where women have been violated in Primark changing rooms this year

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11872062.pervert-who-took-photos-of-teenage-girl-in-primark-changing-room-put-on-sex-offenders-register/

musicviking1 · 25/09/2022 12:20

Mixed sex changing room and toilets make me feel extremely nervous, not only for myself but for my teen children.

whynotwhatknot · 25/09/2022 12:18

i tell you what i would have made the video and told primark to go fuck themselves not congratulate them-what has this come to apologising for being attacked

Whatwouldscullydo · 25/09/2022 12:00

They will still be aware of previous incidents i dont think its any better because it may or may not be related to what happened. They are openly proud of their exclusionary policies and would rather place women and girls at risk than say no to men despite the fact women are the majority when it comes to household budgets and organising spends.

itwasntmetho · 25/09/2022 11:53

Thingybob · 25/09/2022 11:51

That tweet wasn't in response to the woman assaulted as it was posted on the 22nd, more than 24 hours before the video surfaced.

I don't understand what the tweet was about though

Ah well spotted.

OP posts: