DfE settles in Cornwall case

Robin, this is playground behaviour.

Well now, I’m a barrister. We ASK questions rather than answering them.

Just as well after the pisspoor performance of the leading lights of Garden Court Chambers when they were on the stand.

Was quite the leap wasn't it? And oh so defensive! Very odd.

Anyway, back to the thread, I'm assuming now the parents can ask for a judicial review?

@ImherewithBoudica RMW just can’t help proving our point for us can RMW.

It's amazing how you keep popping back to waste your gems of superior wisdom and insight upon the scum, RW.

The whole endless repeating of 'you don't matter, you are beneath me, I cannot be bothered to deign to notice you' is a bit neutralised by the continual popping, but gosh is it a really fantastic example of the misogyny and biology based entitlement to dominate and lord it over that repeatedly demonstrates why females need gatekept spaces of their own.

With every post you show your contempt of women and children. Carry on shining the sunlight.
I will infer that you believe it is ok for schools to trans children as young as 6. And that is ok for a male to teach children whilst wearing huge prosthetic breast.
We see you Robin.
More and more people are seeing the damage this ideology does, and they will not stand for it in schools.
Carry on shining that light

I suspect no line is drawn, so we won't get an answer. Because it's unconscionable.

Well now, I’m a barrister. We ASK questions rather than answering them.

I make exceptions for parliamentary committees.

Good Afternoon!

I see you are back @RobinMoiraWhite. Any chance of you answering the questions? I am interested to see if you draw the line anywhere at gender ideology in schools.

Thanks. Apology accepted.

Getting so very bored with the whining and grumping about 'it's because you're prejudiced about' (whatever characteristic) that's getting endemic on MN across the boards.

No, it's not due to prejudice against that characteristic. It's due to your bloody awful attitude and behaviour.

And your constant expectation that you can dish out whatever you like while standing behind your teflon characteristic, but Others must treat you with kid gloves and with a respect and deference you will never bother reciprocating.

No. No thank you.

Thanks, good to have this background.

The suggestion, presumably, is that during the trial I created a sock Mumsnet account to make this comment.

My post merely mentioned the poster who popped up to instruct us on bundles during AB’s trial.

I certainly wouldn’t and didn’t suggest anyone openly draw the above inference from that (though RMW did) or indeed from RMW’s extremely aggressive response to them being mentioned. Facts are simply facts, nobody needs to suggest or speculate.

anyway, apologies for contributing to the merail. If the merailer returns then:

is it ok for parents/schools to trans children as young as 6?
a different case, but in your opinion is it acceptable for a male teacher to teach students whilst he is wearing gigantic prosthetic breasts?

I don't know, Arabella.

I take it more as a sign that RMW is looking to self-identify as a well established MN poster. "I use the idiolect and everything," seems to be hovering.

Perhaps I should wait on sightings of particular initialisms or suggestions that other posters might 'give their heads a wobble' to confirm that thought.

However, setting aside attention-seeking sideshows and speculations as to a wish to seem like a MN regular, I deplore the creep of self-identified lobby groups who put forward lived experience and ideology as a substitute for expertise. I reserve contempt for those who allow such lobby groups to have power of organisations and services that should know far better and keep the group that they serve (children) at the centre of their considerations.

And interesting to see how the recently sacked teacher's court case goes. Stonewall law really doesn't seem to hold up to any scrutiny.

Apologies for contributing to another petty derail. I shall desist.

Thanks, Blue bell, that's helpful. Lots we probably won't ever know, but I'd not be surprised if this case contributed to the DfE's decisions.

'Get a grip.'

So professional. Much rude.

Barristers don't prepare bundles other than in direct access cases. And OP is right that the High Court does not award compensation in judicial review cases, although it may in certain circumstances award damages.

From what I can see, the Rowes wrote to the DfE in 2017 (or shortly before) asking for a review of the guidance, relying on what they said was expert evidence. The DfE rejected that request. They applied for a judicial review of that decision in 2017. It has now settled with new guidance to be published in due course. To get this far, the following things had to happen:

• The initial request by the Rowes for a review

• A decision of a public body (the 2017 rejection of their request for a review)

• A Pre Action Protocol setting out why the Claimant (the Rowes) thought the decision was unlawful and what they wanted the DfE to do about it

• A response to Pre Action Protocol saying no for a second time

• The claim, which would ask the High Court to review whether the decision was lawful

• An acknowledgement of service and a defence from the DfE through its lawyers, saying no for a third time

The case then goes to a single judge at the "permission" stage who decides on the papers whether or not to grant permission for a review. If that is refused, the claimant can ask for an oral hearing.

I would guess from the sum in legal costs and the length of time that this has taken that permission was refused or only partially granted on the papers and that the Rowes renewed the application orally, and that it was at an oral permission hearing that permission was granted by the judge. But I emphasise that is a guess - it could have been delayed for many reasons and delay in itself can inflate costs if preparation is done and the time then wasted.

After permission is granted, the court will hear the full judicial review application.

It is not wholly unusual for a defendant to reconsider once permission is granted, taking the grant of permission as an indicator of the direction the wind is blowing. It seems here they have settled on the basis that the DfE now agrees that the guidance should be withdrawn and reviewed, as the Rowes asked for in 2017 and the DfE must have rejected in writing at least three times.

So it's a bit of a stretch to say they were going to do it anyway.

I have to laugh.

I’m asked: ‘is something disrespectful and inappropriate’

And I answer: ‘Yes, it’s disrespectful and inappropriate’.

And the next post is: ‘Are you seriously on here, Robin, telling women about what is 'disrespectful and inappropriate'?

Get a grip.

I only read the IOW news, not the times as I cant get into it but obviously that is true, we cant be teaching children things that arent true

I was going by the other article where they say 'he was confused about why he was dressing as a girl' or wtte. That is quite an easy solve, hes just wearing a dress, its just clothing.

I assume other conversations must have taken place for the little boy to have been expected to believe the child was a girl. Im wondering about all the other children in the classroom too, how do they feel?

If Robin or anyone else wants to discuss Allison Bailey's case or court bundles could they keep that on an appropriate thread. I think this one is the most recent:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4637644-allison-bailey-appeal

The issue here is an important one about very young children being transed by parents or schools and the effect on them and the other children. It would be better if it wasn't derailed into discussing a completely different issue just because Robin has posted on it.

Are you seriously on here, Robin, telling women about what is 'disrespectful and inappropriate'?

I am genuinely astonished.

I see you're back @RobinMoiraWhite. Can we keep to the subject of the thread which is about parents and schools transing very young children and calling other young children transphobic if they don't believe these children have literally changed sex. What is your opinion on that?

And you still haven't answered either of these questions.

is it ok for parents/schools to trans children as young as 6?

in your opinion is it acceptable for a male teacher to teach students whilst he is wearing gigantic prosthetic breasts?

Of course. It’s disrespectful and inappropriate.

I have no idea who made this comment about AB while she was giving her evidence.

Quite a number of those attending the AB hearing acted disrespectfully and inappropriately as the judgment records.