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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The time has come where I'm required to teach gender identity...

89 replies

OldChinaJug · 22/09/2022 17:50

What the hell do I do about this?

It's all stereotypes (obviously) and talking about people having the right to express their gender preference. Now, I don't mind teaching that some people believe it (because they do) and I have no objection teaching kindness and tolerance.

But I have a huge issue with teaching gender identify itself as some kind of 'fact'.

All I've got so far is calling in sick 😫

OP posts:
LimboLass · 22/09/2022 22:07

male or female that should read.

LimboLass · 22/09/2022 22:06

only needs to take a few minutes.

"People are born make or female. However as they grow up some people pretend to to be the opposite"

Bish bash fucking bosh. job done.

Igmum · 22/09/2022 21:59

Please find a way of telling the truth. Gender is socially constructed, sex is biological.

Vinniepolis · 22/09/2022 21:46

No real ideas, but just to say my daughter was taught gender crap in the last weeks of year 6 and is now (2 weeks into secondary) identifying as a “non-binary demi-girl”, whatever that means.

For the poster who said: “There is a mental health crisis in young people and teachers/ schools have to do something. They can't just ignore the issue and hope it goes away“ … I would argue the mental health crisis is being caused by schools telling kids they’re supposed to have a gender identity - cue a lot of agonised naval gazing as they try to discover which of the 100 or so genders best describes them. I am so * angry about this, and I speak as someone who has been GC for many years. Schools have a lot to answer for.

dunBle · 22/09/2022 21:45

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/09/2022 21:34

Not a teacher, so sorry if this is naive, but can't you just 'accidentally' leave out a sentence or two, here or there? A lesson plan isn't an actual script, is it?

Primary school kids are unlikely to denounce you for wrong-think and, if they did, you would have the defence of being unfamiliar with the material.

A lot's going to depend on what it actually says on any worksheets provided. I suppose the OP could accidentally leave them on the photocopier, but that would smack of unprofessionalism.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/09/2022 21:34

Not a teacher, so sorry if this is naive, but can't you just 'accidentally' leave out a sentence or two, here or there? A lesson plan isn't an actual script, is it?

Primary school kids are unlikely to denounce you for wrong-think and, if they did, you would have the defence of being unfamiliar with the material.

Soontobe60 · 22/09/2022 21:01

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 22/09/2022 18:24

Maybe develop a sense of professionalism.

I can’t think of anything more unprofessional than telling children they can change sex, can you?

JoodyBlue · 22/09/2022 20:54

Support to OP. And I thought @Decoupagedelilah's suggestion was great for secondary level. For primary school kids it really shouldn't arise. But if it does it falls within the remit of RE rather than PSHE surely. It is a belief system. I wouldn't pass on a belief system as fact to primary aged kids, sorry but even if my job depended on it, I wouldn't. Good luck.

FemaleAndLearning · 22/09/2022 19:56

If you are being asked to teach this then it is above and beyond what is expected at a school. I consulted with our primary school and they decided not to go above and beyond. Someone in the school made the decision to teach about gender identity ideology, fine if it is taught as some people believe and isn't based on sexist sterotypes, but I doubt it.

miffmufferedmoof · 22/09/2022 19:41

Primary school 😮
My kids primary didn’t bring it up at all (just finished year 6)

DinoDay · 22/09/2022 19:27

I don't get it. Can't it just be a lesson about relationships? Some people have 2 mums, some have 2 dads. Some have just one. Some people are black Some are brown, some cultures wear different clothes, believe different things. Sometimes people wear clothes that express themselves. Sometimes they wear clothes for religion. Most people wear whatever they feel good in, unless they need to wear a uniform.

Where would who wants to have sex with who come in to it at primary age? Or what is between anyone's legs? I don't see why gender or sexuality would come in to it at this age.

Something like, all about families, by Usborne, might work.

The books on sex and changing bodies isn't recommended until age 12+.

Tallisker · 22/09/2022 19:15

Primary school. Our poor children.

ValancyRedfern · 22/09/2022 18:52

'Some people believe' would be my ideal but wouldn't be accepted in my school which has been fully Stonewalled. I am fighting it at the moment but don't underestimate how captured most schools are. The Unions are also captured so if we were to get into trouble over objecting our Unions wouldn't support us.

WarriorN · 22/09/2022 18:38

"In the old days little boys wore pink and little girls wore blue...."

WarriorN · 22/09/2022 18:36

Excellent advice above, I'd consider contacting safe schools alliance U.K. too . They're website is good.

"Some people believe..." would be my approach

Whataretheodds · 22/09/2022 18:35

Will they already have covered the biological differences between male and female or is that part of your scope too?

I agree with PP that observing different gender stereotypes, noting how they vary across time and space (eg men wearing 'skirts'/pink/long hair, women don't do science/play brass instruments /work outside the home) and that people don't have to conform to those stereotypes should cover most if not all of that scope?

Decoupagedelilah · 22/09/2022 18:34

That doesn’t sound very diverse. @chosenone! Can you suggest some additions? Eg some GNC lesbians?

chosenone · 22/09/2022 18:31

I’ve taught it in Secondary PSHE to year 7s. It was part of the LGTQ section and the overall objective was to be supportive of each other and speak out of your struggling. It is presented as ‘some people believe’. I added the line that Biological sex is fixed but people identify with gender 😩. The issue I have is the group of ‘diversity role models’ who consist of Transwomen only.

Decoupagedelilah · 22/09/2022 18:30

OP is not allowed to teach gender id as fact, according to the DfE guidance.

EdithStourton · 22/09/2022 18:29

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 22/09/2022 18:24

Maybe develop a sense of professionalism.

I think that's what the OP already has. She doesn't want to teach a belief system as fact.

Decoupagedelilah · 22/09/2022 18:28

Sorry loads is cross posts while I was going off on one.

EdithStourton · 22/09/2022 18:28

Do you have any idea what your head or colleagues think, and whether they would be supportive? Or has anyone else taught this in PSHE in your school and if so how did they go about it?

If you can find a few allies, you will feel less alone.

Decoupagedelilah · 22/09/2022 18:28

IIRC there was some DfE guidance that talked about the need to avoid suggesting that children may be born in the wrong body or that non-conformance to stereotypes means you are trans. But I don’t think it gave any clues about what should be taught and I can’t find it.

Found this one assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1090195/Relationships_Education_RSE_and_Health_Education.pdf

says
75. Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way. All pupils should feel that the content is relevant to them and their developing sexuality. Sexual orientation and gender identity should be explored at a timely point and in a clear, sensitive and respectful manner. When teaching about these topics, it must be recognised that young people may be discovering or understanding their sexual orientation or gender identity.

  1. Pupils should be well informed about the full range of perspectives and, within the law, should be well equipped to make decisions for themselves about how to live their own lives, whilst respecting the right of others to make their own decisions and hold their own beliefs.

Also says kids should know:

• how stereotypes, in particular stereotypes based on sex, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation or disability, can cause damage (e.g. how they might normalise non-consensual behaviour or encourage prejudice).

So you can’t be compliant with this guidance and teach gender id as a fact. Some people feel they have one; others don’t. Some people believe there’s a conflict between gay rights and trans rights; others don’t.

Give some definitions and then a good place to start might be the difference between sex, gender identity and gender presentation. And can we assume one based on any of the others? And can we assume everyone has one (sex, yes; gender id and gender expression, no)

Pictures through time (and maybe place?) - eg Victorian boys in dresses, 1970s Bowie, Maya looking pretty in a nice dress, Julie Bindel, Magdalen Berns, the Susie person from mermaids (assuming she identifies as cis), Glinner and Jo Maugham from Good Law Project, Alison Bailey in that amazing vintage pride picture, and some current trans/nb people - ie a mix of people known to have said they have/don’t have a gender id and some unknowns. Get kids to guess - who says they identify as man/woman/nb, who says they have no gender id, who has said nothing (and what can we assume about them?)

What does gender id mean to different people? Some quotes - some trans people who it’s really important to, some people who find it utterly oppressive and retrograde.

discuss in what ways gender Id could be helpful/important, in what ways it could be harmful.

a quote from a happy transitioner. A quote from a devastated detransitoner - maybe that guy who’s suing the nhs?

and the law, and the need for tolerance and respect on all sides.

HipTightOnions · 22/09/2022 18:26

I was in a similar situation, although in secondary rather than primary, and kicked up a bit of a stink.

After quite a battle, I was eventually allowed, with a couple of like-minded colleagues, to re-write the resources in terms of "some people believe... whereas other people believe... and these are the facts...".

It has been a very unpleasant experience, but worth it in the end. Good luck if you take it on.

JoanOgden · 22/09/2022 18:26

Suella Braverman (as a government minister) gave a talk in the summer which was partly about schools not having to follow gender identity ideology... Worth checking this out.