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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The time has come where I'm required to teach gender identity...

89 replies

OldChinaJug · 22/09/2022 17:50

What the hell do I do about this?

It's all stereotypes (obviously) and talking about people having the right to express their gender preference. Now, I don't mind teaching that some people believe it (because they do) and I have no objection teaching kindness and tolerance.

But I have a huge issue with teaching gender identify itself as some kind of 'fact'.

All I've got so far is calling in sick 😫

OP posts:
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Grumblemonster · 28/09/2022 08:39

In the context of the lesson plan you have I think it might help to be more specific. I.e. the aim of the lesson is to foster awareness of the protected characteristics of the equality act and promote anti-discrimination, so some examples of discrimination on the basis of sex (comparator similar person of OPPOSITE sex) and examples of discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment (comparator person of SAME sex without gender reassignment) might help clarity.

DameHelena · 26/09/2022 12:38

OldChinaJug · 24/09/2022 12:41

I looked into it a bit further yesterday.

The main premise is not that people.can change sex but your sex is what you are born as and your gender is what you can choose - your personal preference. The main focus of the lesson is tolerance and accepting people as their preferred gender rather than focusing on their sex.

It's part of a series of lessons they are delivering based upon the protected characteristics. Only they've conflated sex and gender so all other characteristics are being covered (apart from maternity) but sex is being covered as 'gender'.

So, hang on. They want you to teach that sex is what you are born as and your gender is what you can choose – fine. But then they conflate sex and gender in the context of protected characteristics.
That's not too bad, is it, inasmuch as at least they do (initially) distinguish sex from gender. Are you not able to just teach from that premise, and make clear that the protected characteristic of sex is separate from the one of gender reassignment?

DdraigGoch · 26/09/2022 12:32

musicalfrog · 25/09/2022 23:08

Have you been reading about this debate at all?

Yes there are people that very firmly believe taking hormones and having surgery actually changes someone's sex. They're wrong, but they do believe it.

And some nutters have even been talking of uterus implants.

musicalfrog · 25/09/2022 23:08

Walkden · 25/09/2022 08:30

"no matter how strongly some people might believe that"

I don't think anyone believes you can change biological sex / your chromosomes, hence the concept of gender...

Have you been reading about this debate at all?

Yes there are people that very firmly believe taking hormones and having surgery actually changes someone's sex. They're wrong, but they do believe it.

WearyLady · 25/09/2022 09:21

OldChinaJug · 24/09/2022 12:41

I looked into it a bit further yesterday.

The main premise is not that people.can change sex but your sex is what you are born as and your gender is what you can choose - your personal preference. The main focus of the lesson is tolerance and accepting people as their preferred gender rather than focusing on their sex.

It's part of a series of lessons they are delivering based upon the protected characteristics. Only they've conflated sex and gender so all other characteristics are being covered (apart from maternity) but sex is being covered as 'gender'.

The lesson as you describe it doesn't sound too bad: sex and gender identity (if you believe in it) are different and we all should be tolerant and respectful to others. Why not see this as an opportunity? Teach this as it should be taught; correct any occurrences of 'gender' when it should be 'sex'; emphasise the 'some people believe' aspect and check what the actual protected characteristics are (because gender identity isn't one of them) and make sure that use these. If anyone questions this, you can just point out that you were correcting mistakes in the plan. On the day, you're the one delivering the lesson and can verbally put the emphasis wherever you think fit. I'm assuming of course that the thought police will not be recording your lesson.

EveSix · 25/09/2022 09:10

Primary teacher here.
DfE guidance is good.
I also make sure, right from when we start to talk about changing bodies, reproduction, babies and periods, that my pupils know without a shadow of a doubt that sex is immutable and determined by chromosomes. I then base all further conversations on this knowledge and reference it throughout.

Walkden · 25/09/2022 08:30

"no matter how strongly some people might believe that"

I don't think anyone believes you can change biological sex / your chromosomes, hence the concept of gender...

musicalfrog · 25/09/2022 08:24

I would be making it very very clear that it's not scientifically possible to change sex, no matter how strongly some people might believe that.

BacktoSlack · 25/09/2022 08:21

But what do you actually mean by 'develop a sense of professionalism' @WomanStanleyWoman2 ?

It's really not obvious

Do you mean 'get on with teaching the material and stop questioning it' or do you mean 'as a professional teacher you should know not to teach harmful stereotypes to impressionable young minds so force the issue with your leader' or do you mean something else?

To me being professional means doing a good job without letting personal opinions and biases cloud your judgement. What does 'doing a good job' look like in this instance?

It's almost like you're throwing around sound bites without thinking about what assumptions under pin them 🙄

WarriorN · 25/09/2022 08:08

OldChinaJug · 24/09/2022 12:41

I looked into it a bit further yesterday.

The main premise is not that people.can change sex but your sex is what you are born as and your gender is what you can choose - your personal preference. The main focus of the lesson is tolerance and accepting people as their preferred gender rather than focusing on their sex.

It's part of a series of lessons they are delivering based upon the protected characteristics. Only they've conflated sex and gender so all other characteristics are being covered (apart from maternity) but sex is being covered as 'gender'.

It's the identity bit that's the issue. It alludes to your clothing and interests as actually being you, rather than you are "x" and these are the things you like and that's ok.

Due to how the word and concept of "Identity" is being used within wider society and lgbtq now, it allows for the concept of this identity to exist as someone en route to a medical sex change.

The whole thing can be taught via smashing gender stereotypes and never mentioning the word identity.

Ohnohedident · 25/09/2022 00:22

The Scotish Times article on Queen Anne school was fantastic on being ostensibly pro the idology but anyone reading it will come away feeling VERY uneasy about the idology.
If it was me having to teach this I would read that article closely and try to design a curiculm which reflected this style iykwim.

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 24/09/2022 23:33

ThreeLocusts · 24/09/2022 23:07

Meaning what? Are you for real?

Yes, completely.

ThreeLocusts · 24/09/2022 23:07

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 22/09/2022 18:24

Maybe develop a sense of professionalism.

Meaning what? Are you for real?

bitachey · 24/09/2022 22:35

It’s kind of fascinating how we’re being put back in our boxes. Remember this?

The time has come where I'm required to teach gender identity...
BreatheAndFocus · 24/09/2022 19:11

FrancescaContini · 23/09/2022 13:50

All this work was done in the 1970s thanks to the earlier waves of feminism. The hard work has been undone over the last 20 years. It’s nothing new to tell girls they can be a plumber or play with cars or boys can wear sparkles or be a hairdresser yada yada….those of us over 45 or so grew up knowing this already.

Why this work needs to be done again will no doubt be the subject for sociologists, feminists, social historians etc in the future. I’d love to know if there’s anyone out there already looking into it. But it’s really disheartening to know that “girls can be scientists too, you know “ is again being pointed out in schools.

I’m over 45 too, Francesca, and I find it very depressing that we seem to be going backwards. I’ve started to suspect it’s deliberate - women and girls being pushed back into their box because we were approaching equality. When I first asked an enthusiast to explain gender identity to me, they basically laid out the stereotypes and asked me if I liked doing womany things. This was an educated person telling me this. I was gobsmacked.

Anxiouscat · 24/09/2022 17:06

Well in that case it's factually incorrect and you could challenge it on that basis

Anxiouscat · 24/09/2022 17:04

I had a look at guidance recently. My reading is that teaching gender identity is non statutory in primary schools. Also because it's not scientific fact and the existence of gender identity is unproven, it's an ideology, and I would argue that as such the guidance on teaching about politics (I.e. different views should be given) should apply. And I would add that the warnings to schools in the Cass review should be interpreted even more cautiously. Cass interim report warns against social transition eg adopting preferred pronouns without parental permission as "not a neutral act". I would argue that teaching gender ideology at all is not a neutral act and shouldn't be done at primary age (or arguably at all) without consulting parents. I also think it's extremely problematic to teach gender ideology at the age when kids are first learning about what will happen to them at puberty and may either be grossed out by it or already confused enough without introducing the idea that men can become women and vice verss

OldChinaJug · 24/09/2022 12:41

I looked into it a bit further yesterday.

The main premise is not that people.can change sex but your sex is what you are born as and your gender is what you can choose - your personal preference. The main focus of the lesson is tolerance and accepting people as their preferred gender rather than focusing on their sex.

It's part of a series of lessons they are delivering based upon the protected characteristics. Only they've conflated sex and gender so all other characteristics are being covered (apart from maternity) but sex is being covered as 'gender'.

OP posts:
Tidyspy · 24/09/2022 08:28

Great thread, good luck OP. Our primary didn’t go near this but DC1 is y7 and I’m bracing myself for when it comes up, esp for DC2.

bitachey · 23/09/2022 19:51

This is where it leads to. Scary.

Teachers face ‘significant challenges’ to avoid outing trans pupils to parents

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1c01ac90-3a90-11ed-84dd-c16384999350?shareToken=c5d985b26d54858d0ec1c271a881a5e6

WearyLady · 23/09/2022 19:16

TeenDivided · 23/09/2022 16:29

So. Take a red pen to the materials and mark up every belief stated as fact, or every reinforcing of stereotypes, everywhere that goes against DofE guidance. Keep a record the lesson wasn't fit for purpose.
And then deliver something brief but accurate.

This.

You say that you're obliged to teach what's in a previously prepared lesson plan but step back a bit and consider what you would do if you were asked to teach some other subject that was factually incorrect. How would you approach that situation? I'm sure your managers would not let you go ahead and teach incorrect history or geography. Whatever you would do with those subjects, do it now.

TeenDivided · 23/09/2022 16:29

So. Take a red pen to the materials and mark up every belief stated as fact, or every reinforcing of stereotypes, everywhere that goes against DofE guidance. Keep a record the lesson wasn't fit for purpose.
And then deliver something brief but accurate.

TeenDivided · 23/09/2022 16:27

The problem is, everyone is suggesting eminently sensible lessons.
But the OP is having to deliver a lesson planned by someone else.

OP. What would you do if you had to deliver a lesson planned by someone else that had factual errors in it? e.g. If it claimed the area of a circle was pi times diameter squared, or that the holocaust wasn't true or 'intelligent design' in a science lesson? Then follow the same guidelines (e.g. correct before the lesson, use alternate materials or whatever).

Misstache · 23/09/2022 16:10

You should say that as a cisheterowhiteprivilegedablebodiedneurotypicaletcetc woman you don’t feel your voice should be centred speaking over Black Trans women and you couldn’t possibly take up space and centre yourself on this topic. And you hope everyone takes the time to reflect on their privilege and educate themselves about cis oppression and silencing. And also that queer and Trans youth in your classroom are the lives experience leaders on this topic and speaking over them is offensive as you would not presume to explain their lives to them. Then you become the most socially just person in the room and can tell everyone to you’re not here to do the work for them but they should unpack their own privilege. 😂😂😂😂

pattihews · 23/09/2022 14:20

These are the facts:
Humans come only in two sexes, male and female: chromosomes
You can't change sex
There is masses of scientific evidence to support all this.

Some people believe in a thing called gender ideology. Explain gender ideology.

There is no scientific evidence to support this belief, it is a feeling some people have — very similar to the way in which some people believe that god exists because they say they feel it. Many people don't believe in a god. There is no scientific evidence to support the existence of god.

We accept that some people believe in god and gender identity, but we don't have to believe it ourselves. We have freedom of belief in this country which means people can believe what they want, but no one can be forced to believe something they don't believe in or expected to pretend they believe in something they don't.

I'm not a teacher. Bugger fairness and impartiality, no teacher should ever teach children to believe in something that doesn't exist/ isn't true.

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