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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article on academia

186 replies

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 15/09/2022 11:37

www.timeshighereducation.com/depth/researchers-are-wounded-academias-gender-wars

Does anyone have a share token?

OP posts:
NecessaryScene · 17/09/2022 15:14

Which rather proves the points made in the article.

As Jane Clare Jones put it:

TRA academics.

You have one way and one way only of demonstrating that Laura Favaro's conclusions are wrong.

Let her work be published and in no way try to block it or smear her or her reputation or her research ethics.

But they just can't help themselves. They're stuck in this loop where they have to continue perform to each other, even when they know the spotlight is on them and everyone else is watching in horror.

RoyalCorgi · 17/09/2022 14:54

I just had a thought, which is that the new universities minister really needs to know about this and tackle it as a matter of urgency. Then I had another thought: who is the new universities minister?

Turns out there isn't one, at least not as far as I can see. Anyone else know any better?

LuftBalloons · 17/09/2022 14:34

It didn't go further than the module convenor, who does work in queer theory actually but was fairly level-headed about the whole thing, and basically just reiterated to the student that this was foundational work, and also not everything is for everyone.

It's quite extraordinary that students even need to be told this. I was doing a supervision with a research student the other week, who is hell-bent on using Judith Butler's ideas, despite them not really being suited to the thesis topic. I found myself having to say that Butler is not Holy Writ. I keep pushing them to Kristeva & Irigaray, who will be much more conceptually useful, I think.

We need to remind students that ideas and arguments are up for thoughtful, evidenced discussion in good faith (not the "it's just a debate" one sometimes hears).

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 17/09/2022 14:31

RoyalCorgi · 17/09/2022 14:21

Is there any way of reaching out to Laura? Because I'm guessing what happens next is emails to her department head calling for them to sack her.

I wonder if she's on MN. It wouldn't surprise me. If you're reading, Laura: well done. You did a brave thing. Stay strong.

www.city.ac.uk/about/people/academics/laura-favaro

RoyalCorgi · 17/09/2022 14:21

Is there any way of reaching out to Laura? Because I'm guessing what happens next is emails to her department head calling for them to sack her.

I wonder if she's on MN. It wouldn't surprise me. If you're reading, Laura: well done. You did a brave thing. Stay strong.

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 13:43

(In response to Phipps long 'apology' on twitter for being involved in the research.)

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 13:42

By @ quizzfizz on twitter

You sound terrified. As if you have to perform a Maoist self-criticism for unknowingly fraternising with the enemy in case you are purged from the party. Which rather proves the points made in the article.

Times article on academia
NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 13:26

It sounds very oppressive academicsock.

I wonder what will break this spell they're all under? It's bonkers

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 13:17

Yes Sudo, its the whole thing in a nutshell.

academicsock · 17/09/2022 13:06

lifelongaway · 17/09/2022 11:33

I was accused of being transphobic in a literary theory class for assigning an essay by Julia Kristeva, who is considered transphobic now because her theory is about the female body

Its not just shocking that anyone would make this accusation, but its utterly shocking that this could be given any seriousness. Whoever received this complaint should openly laugh and dismiss it firmly. Its ridiculous, misogynistic to its core. Its awful.

It didn't go further than the module convenor, who does work in queer theory actually but was fairly level-headed about the whole thing, and basically just reiterated to the student that this was foundational work, and also not everything is for everyone. I was only doing the one class, thankfully, so didn't have to deal with it afterwards, but it was a horrible experience during the class. It completely stalled any discussion, as nobody would or could speak up with a different view to the objecting student (who was trans, in fact). I did also get the 'reading pyschoanalysis is literal violence to trans people' line, and the suggestion that it was similar to reading Mein Kampf.

It is getting worse here. We don't have mandatory diversity training yet, though it is strongly encouraged (and it's 95% gender-focused), along with pronouns etc. Meanwhile, we have precisely one person of colour on the teaching staff.

SudocremOnEverything · 17/09/2022 12:50

This bit from that talk is very powerful, I think.

The framework goes as follows: The white man declares himself a woman, but he keeps his power and privilege, himself part of the ruling patriarchy. Then, he proceeds to erase woman to further possess her, what he sees as his—conquering her language, her organizations, and her spaces. He forces children to learn an ideology of madness, those who are then coerced and compelled into medicalization, including surgeries. Able to step into all of the spaces that he dominates, he forces us to see him as if he is a sexual and racial minority, constantly comparing himself to Black women. He exerts his dominion. Or, the white man identifies with Black trans-identified men, using the latter’s murder rate as his oppression by proxy. It is as if he puts his hands into a bucket of melanin, rubs it on his own skin, and then declares almost racial minority status for himself. But, of course, he maintains the convenient option to keep his power and his control to punish any whom he perceives as disobedient to his will. Misogyny becomes interwoven with capitalism and racism. As Black women, we have been very sensitive to and aware of the white man’s comparisons between himself and the Black woman in his consumption of us.

SudocremOnEverything · 17/09/2022 12:41

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 11:39

Life, see link below and this one, which mners have shared before. There was a thread somewhere. It's a long watch so one you need to devote some time to.

Previous one is shorter.

I am afraid I don't have any links to her writing.

The text of that is here: https://www.womenarehuman.com/american-racism-in-the-colonization-of-womanhood/

lifelongaway · 17/09/2022 12:39

@NEWarONwomen

Thank you! : )

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 12:27

She's an echo chamber.

ImNotAnExpert · 17/09/2022 12:17

FWIW I found Phipps' essay on 'white tears' callous at the time, and given the context (rape survivors) actually verging on grotesque.

I wouldn't hold her words against her, but I think she should recognise how that essay impacted on rape survivors.

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 11:40

Bollocks!

THIS one!

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 11:40

Sorry this one

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 11:39

Life, see link below and this one, which mners have shared before. There was a thread somewhere. It's a long watch so one you need to devote some time to.

Previous one is shorter.

I am afraid I don't have any links to her writing.

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 11:37

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel I missed that comment, absolute pure gold ⭐️!

That was the article I challenged as being the most privileged, historically innaccurate, misogynistic and racist thing I've read all year. Supporting evidence/ argument by Dr FV:

lifelongaway · 17/09/2022 11:35

I provided counter arguments made by a black American academic that the tra movement is racist. And the academic has spoken widely about her reasoning, interviews etc can be found

I would be interested in reading this if you could name her or link to articles?

lifelongaway · 17/09/2022 11:33

I was accused of being transphobic in a literary theory class for assigning an essay by Julia Kristeva, who is considered transphobic now because her theory is about the female body

Its not just shocking that anyone would make this accusation, but its utterly shocking that this could be given any seriousness. Whoever received this complaint should openly laugh and dismiss it firmly. Its ridiculous, misogynistic to its core. Its awful.

NEWarONwomen · 17/09/2022 11:32

NC as I've been ranting on twatter.

Excellent article and I'm so glad it's in the times higher.

Phipps is unbelievable.

Im NOT and academic and challenged her a while back over the claims she made that terfs are racist and middle class. I provided counter arguments made by a black American academic that the tra movement is racist. And the academic has spoken widely about her reasoning, interviews etc can be found.

Phipps just blocked me.

And now she's making out she's a victim due to this research, grovelling on twitter to the TRAs.

I'm ashamed to say Newcastle was my university.

lifelongaway · 17/09/2022 11:28

Did a white woman write that to gain power by performing submission?

Brilliantly insightful comment! Grin

lifelongaway · 17/09/2022 11:22

SudocremOnEverything · 16/09/2022 16:57

I think it might all have something to do with that point where loads of humanities and social science scholars be some obsessed with ‘the political’ over everything else. Then started drifting towards insisting that activism and taking political stands were the purpose of what they were doing.

Meanwhile the idea that they might be trying to understand - or even that there is value in standing back and not taking a stance so you can try to look at things from a range of different perspectives - fell by the wayside.

So now actually having any idea clear definition or understanding of what is going on is viewed as a threat to the political position of affirming people’s chosen gender identity. It would be dreadful if academics questioned anything or attempted to think critically because the political position and the activism are all that matter.

I agree with this. I could see this starting back in the early 2000's when I was doing an MSc. You could see it amongst the Phd and MSc students (humanities, obviously) - the idea that they were activists, attempts to be objective in your research were sneered at. Science was sneered at in general. Yes. This.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 17/09/2022 10:07

Kellie45 Since the new software update, MN doesn't preserve paragraph breaks if you copy and paste what you've typed so far into the Mumsnet message window. Which is terrible for those of us who have learnt to c&p to avoid losing long posts.

The work-around for me, is to

  1. c&p what I've written into my email or text program,
  2. check the paragraph breaks show there,
  3. c&p from that program anew into MN
  4. check message preview and see if the breaks are showing.
  5. if they are not, I repeat steps 1-4 until they do.