Has MN become just another platform that silences women?

Absolutely this. Not perfect, but definitely an important source of (careful) debate and tremendously useful information.

You keep saying you don't post on this board because of the words, statements and tone used by posters here regarding this debate, so I am asking you what you would consider acceptable in terms of words, statements and tone @AdamRyan, is that not reasonable to ask?

See I disagree
I'd rather obscure feminist quotes and open discussion than pile ons for "wrong think"

No one is being piled on for wrong think here.

Challeging other users is perfectly normal on a forum - if we agreed with each other the board would die. We are where we are because we disagree and challenge ourselves. We have all taken our experiences and talked and developed robust arguments for women rights and child safeguarding, that's not an echo chamber it focused discussion.

If we cant do that with each other, we wouldn't bee in a position to challenge politicians.

There is a difference between "robust discussion" and implying people are stupid, or men, or whatever.

I came up through a male dominated philosophy department in the 90s. Robust discussion was par for the course. Insinuations were not.

What??!! I don't have any parameters. Even if I did I'm not a mod so who cares?

Very confused now

You shifted the goal post there @AdamRyan from having a human right to live as they like to respecting their beliefs, - did you suddenly realise how ridiculous your first statement was? How does/should this respect manifest itself then? Should we throw a few obscure feminist theory quotes around, would that do it?

You keep castigating us for being rude and I've already asked you but received no reply (which is a bit rude) as to what your personal parameters for this discussion/debate are, perhaps you could let us know.

Its very easy to say nothing about your own views and criticise others.

See I disagree
I'd rather obscure feminist quotes and open discussion than pile ons for "wrong think"

I've been on mumsnet for around 15 years and posting on FWR for as long.

Then you'll remember that it's always been a place for robust discussion.

Thinking out it, it's become far more accessible because we've stopped the one-upmanshipping with ridiculous number of academic feminist quotes.

Trans people have the right to express their belief in gender identity and have that respected, in the same way as any other belief

Not really the same thing as having "a human right to live as they like"?

And no one has the "right" to have their beliefs respected if they aren't worthy of respect. But of course they have the right to express them, unless directly inciting violence. As do we all, including rude people.

When it extends onto them forcing me to comply with a belief I don't share, that's where I have a problem.

So for example if we were to start training creationism as equally valid to evolution then I'd be outraged. But if creationists choose to believe that, not an issue for me.

I doubt anyone would disagree with that position, so I'm a bit puzzled as to why you think anyone here is saying any different?

I do respect other people's beliefs, even if I personally think they are batshit

No, that's you respecting their right to hold beliefs. Not the same as respecting the beliefs. You can't respect a belief you consider 'batshit'.

I always find Advanced Search to be a useful aid when trying to determine the whether a poster is posting in good faith.

That's a values thing then. I do respect other people's beliefs, even if I personally think they are batshit, as its really not my business what people choose to believe. I find it interesting how other people navigate the world, in fact.

When it extends onto them forcing me to comply with a belief I don't share, that's where I have a problem.

So for example if we were to start training creationism as equally valid to evolution then I'd be outraged. But if creationists choose to believe that, not an issue for me.

Plus, plenty of trans people don't share a belief in gender identity.

I've been on mumsnet for around 15 years and posting on FWR for as long.
This "I'm afraid arguing about whether or not females are fighting their oppression in a way that personally suits you" is rude. I'm not arguing any such thing. I was putting forward my perspective in response to the op. Other posters are either deliberately misquoting, or their own confirmation bias means they assume I must be uninformed so they arent engaging with what I actually write, and instead are engaging with what they assume I think (such as saying I believe people can be born in the wrong body, when I absolutely don't)

Ironically this is a case study of what I said at the outset. Which is that despite being considered a "transphobe" in real life for passionately advocating womens sex based rights, on here I get crucified as if I was a TRA so I don't post any more.

It's a shame because FWR used to be very important to me as a bastion of detailed feminist conversation about a range of topics. I feel like women have list out because now only one set of views are tolerated. But nothing stays the same.

Trans people have the right to express their belief in gender identity and have that respected,

That's in relation to public authorities. It doesn't mean people in day to day life are bound to be nice, polite, or friendly about other people's beliefs.

If you were to argue we should in general be polite and respectful of other people, fine. But I don't afford the same respect to the beliefs of other people, and I don't think it's healthy to suggest anyone should.

Rude. Again.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-9-freedom-thought-belief-and-religion

At no time did I suggest trans peoples right to express their gender identity should override sex based right.

Trans people have the right to express their belief in gender identity and have that respected, in the same way as any other belief

Exactly, Eresh, unfortunately some people lack the capability of intelligent thought hence making that comment. Perhaps they could, for once, just try and think through the implications of that statement that they use for emotional blackmail.

its very unfair to people who want the human right to live as they please.

Such a "human right" does not exist because sometimes your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins.

Comparisons to deckchairs on titanics are rude and unacceptable.

Dismissing others’ contributions as horseshit is fine and dandy.

HTH

Okay @AdamRyan:

What are acceptable responses?
What is an acceptable tone?
What form of debate, discussion, argument is acceptable?

Are you suggesting we be kind, be more submissive, more supplicant? Trot out the mantra about how hard trans peoples lives are, they are the most oppressed they go through so much before we say anything?

Imo absolute clarity is what is needed, no fudging around the edges, no obfuscation, just cold hard objective clarity, it's simpler, easier and no room for misunderstanding.

<Shrug>

If you find a response like that offensive or off-putting, then much of MN isn't for you. Have you seen the way women respond on an average AIBU?

I don't think these boards are any different to lots of other boards on MN. Baby names and primary schools can be brutal, and as you say, who agrees on AIBU?