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Original poster

Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

819 replies

nauticant · 13/09/2022 11:15

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:39

Paraphrasing obvs

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:38

BJ wants to reclaim lgb movement from the pervs

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:37

BJ is saying that there is a danger with an undefined plus

Mmmnotsure · 14/09/2022 11:36

Gloves are off. MG robustly disagrees with BJ's explanation of the bestiality tweet. You meant it to be scaremongering, etc

Original poster
nauticant · 14/09/2022 11:35

BJ back on form on the "bestiality tweet" which in context was objecting to an academic paper promoting that bestiality should be incorporated into LGBTQI+.

OP posts:
HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:35

BJ talking about the opene ended + on the alphabet soup LGBTQI

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:33

Slightly fangirling here seeing Julie Bindel’s name on the same list as mine 😁

Mmmnotsure · 14/09/2022 11:33

MG: points to offensive tweets/etc
BJ: v small org. Needed to make voice heard. All these were available to the CC before they agreed to our registration.

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:31

Sorry, yes, autocorrect changed her to the.
thanks for picking that up. Don’t want to mislead anyone!

2fallsfromSSA · 14/09/2022 11:30

Yes because she has actually read and understands the Cass report. This lawyer is earning his money as he has his work cut out, that's for sure.

Original poster
nauticant · 14/09/2022 11:30

Are they not Malcolm Clark's tweets?

OP posts:
HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:29

BJ backing up her tweets by saying the allegations of homophobia were backed up in cass report

2fallsfromSSA · 14/09/2022 11:28

Should say PBs often said to be reversible , which is contested. Many go on to x-sex hormones etc
MG: BB would plainly disagree with you and everyone agrees further research needs to be done.
BJ: Cass report makes clear

The hypocrisy and contradiction again very clear. BB said she was not a medical expert, that MM do not advise on medical matters, so why is the lawyer quoting anything she said?

Mmmnotsure · 14/09/2022 11:28

Bears saying twice Hoof :)

FannyCann · 14/09/2022 11:28

We shouldn't forget the case, some years ago now, when Mermaids was banned from contact with a young boy and his mother due to them supporting the mother in transing the boy, who was then sent to live with his father.

I think the judge in the case was not impressed with Mermaids.

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:27

Xpost @Mmmnotsure

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:27

We support gender non confirming children. The point is gnc children should not be medicalised BJ

Mmmnotsure · 14/09/2022 11:27

BJ: we support gnc children. What we don't support is medicalising them. They don't need to be and shouldn't be medicalised.

Mmmnotsure · 14/09/2022 11:22

MG ; accusing Mermaids of transing away the gay
BJ:everyone involved in admin of pbs is unfortunately, and I'm sure unintentionally, involved in what I believe will prove to be a huge medical scandal.

TheKeatingFive · 14/09/2022 11:22

therefore whatever your gender is dictates what sex you are

Which comes back to rejecting the biological evidence of our own eyes (and other senses).

Truly a leap of faith.

Original poster
nauticant · 14/09/2022 11:22

It interesting how often Mermaids are able to assert that there's no evidence that children have been put on a medical pathway leading to lifelong changes that the children (now adults) regret. In the gender critical view, this problem is shown by the existence of detransitioners. This evidence exists and in future cases it should be gathered and submitted to deal with this denial.

OP posts:
crabbyoldbat · 14/09/2022 11:22

Signalbox · 14/09/2022 11:15

Let's give her a break on her language usage.
She's really doing an outstanding job.

Show quote history

she is, and yes

Mmmnotsure · 14/09/2022 11:19

BJ: puberty blockers oft described reversible and harmless. I don't believe that true. Vast majority of children who start on pbs go on to x sex hormones, which = irreversible and puts them on pathway.
MG: BB would disagree. neither of you are medical
BJ: I think the Cass report makes it v clear

LaughingPriest · 14/09/2022 11:19

TheClogLady · 14/09/2022 11:02

Can't we at least get this nailed down once and for all? SW says they're the same, others say they're the same, Mermaids now say they're different.

Mermaids are behind the trend - trans orgs used to say that sex and gender were different until we all started going, ‘Sweet. You do gender anyway you fancy but stay out of single sex spaces that aren’t for your sex’

then the orgs had to pivot back. Mermaids are on last years playbook.

a fascinating example of the language shifts is in the initials used to describe male genital surgery.

SRS = Sex Reassignment Surgery
GRS = Gender Recognition Surgery
GRS = Genital Reconstruction Surgery
GAS = Gender Affirmation Surgery

if sex and gender are the same, why did the mermaids ceo need to take a 16 year old abroad for an operation that removed male sex organs?

is sex and gender are different (and sex is M/F and gender is man/woman) why do some male born transitioners say they have a ‘female’ gender identity? And vice versa.

Why does a GENDER recognition certificate allow for the changing of the SEX marker on a birth certificate?

Why should a trans persons gender change the way homosexuals define their orientation?

NO ONE CAN ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS CONSISTENTLY which is why the LGBT orgs are all constantly tinkering with definitions, depending on the questions at the time.

which is how you end up with serious awkward situations like lesbians being called ‘vagina fetishists’ or ‘sexual racists’.

The answer to this, as far as I can establish from Stonewall et al, is that gender is different from sex (hence your birth sex can be "wrong" for your gender), but sex is the same as gender (therefore whatever your gender is dictates what sex you are).

I can't think of a plainer way of putting it than that!

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/09/2022 11:18

Yes

bJ “puberty blockers not reversible “

qn “ let’s cut this short”

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