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Original poster

Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

819 replies

nauticant · 13/09/2022 11:15

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
ickky · 13/09/2022 14:47

nauticant · 13/09/2022 14:43

BB: Locked-in isn't in a thing because one doesn't have to stay in the pathway.

That would also appear to be a lie as I recall TulipR said he felt he had to go through with the operation after deferring a number of times as he was worried they would not offer him any further support.

Signalbox · 13/09/2022 14:46

pattihews · 13/09/2022 14:45

But what about all the older married men?

Show quote history

She would class them as lesbians.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2022 14:45

Bad taste like the Mermaids bondage calendar?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3478720-Drag-queens-pose-in-bond-age-gear-for-calendar-in-aid-of-Mermaids?flipped=1&page=1

pattihews · 13/09/2022 14:45

ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:44

BB on the bus: 'Deeply problematic. Utterly inappropriate way of having a civilised debate and reductionist. Only 9% of t people are straight.'

But what about all the older married men?

ickky · 13/09/2022 14:45

It would be interesting to see the stats on how many were referred to Gids and how many did not continue with the referrals. As there is such a long wait, I would imagine some change their minds in the interim.

chilling19 · 13/09/2022 14:45

Cross posted Nauticant. You put it better than I did.

Original poster
nauticant · 13/09/2022 14:45

I don’t really understand BB’s objection to the bus. Can anyone explain?

Maybe it's the same as Margaret Thatcher's?

(Although to be fair: fullfact.org/news/margaret-thatcher-bus/)

OP posts:
ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:45

I am guessing she doesn't like the word 'gay' being used so bluntly.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 13/09/2022 14:44

GrinitchSpinach · 13/09/2022 14:43

I don’t really understand BB’s objection to the bus. Can anyone explain?

In reality? Bad taste I think

she seems very ‘naice’

ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:44

BB on the bus: 'Deeply problematic. Utterly inappropriate way of having a civilised debate and reductionist. Only 9% of t people are straight.'

Signalbox · 13/09/2022 14:44

BB says that to suggest that gay children may be being put onto the wrong pathway and being locked into being trans (so gay conversion) is deeply offensive.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2022 14:44

Thank you @ImNotAnExpert

pattihews · 13/09/2022 14:43

ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:37

'We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once.'

That's totally cool, then. If only 7% of children who've had irreversible surgery/treatment go on to change their mind. Ya win some ya lose some, eh?

I've had a 2-minute read of the conclusions and it would seem that the mean age of transition was 8 and the survey covered a period of 5 years, by which time the mean age would presumably be 13 — so still very young to be changing their minds and still almost certainly with no mature understanding of what is being done to their bodies. Perhaps at 18, or 23, the results will look very different.

GrinitchSpinach · 13/09/2022 14:43

I don’t really understand BB’s objection to the bus. Can anyone explain?

Original poster
nauticant · 13/09/2022 14:43

BB: Locked-in isn't in a thing because one doesn't have to stay in the pathway.

OP posts:
ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:42

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=488613142656686

chilling19 · 13/09/2022 14:41

KM is competently laying out the argument that the concerns that led to the formulation of LGBA are legitimate.

ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:41

The LGBA had a bus advert that said 'gay teens aren't sick' ... will see if I can find a pic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2022 14:41

What's the comment about the bus referring to?

ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:40

KM: Moving on, other reasons for your appeal: 'gay teens aren't sick' is not problematic is it?
BB: it is, I dont want gay teens or trans teens written on side of a bus in London

Confused
Original poster
nauticant · 13/09/2022 14:39

Keep in mind what KM is doing here, she's hammering home the point that effectively all of BB's criticism of LGBA is that it holds views she disagrees with, and in many cases, LGBA has justifications for the views it holds, even though BB would disagree.

OP posts:
BreastedBoobilyToTheStairs · 13/09/2022 14:39

A child being told or taught that there might be something wrong about their body just seems unlikely to me

'There's nothing wrong with your body but also take these drugs to stop it developing properly because it will make the irreversible surgery that you'll go on to have when you're a bit older (because your body obviously isn't right), easier'.

Is that about the long and short of it?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2022 14:38

https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/do-you-still-use-the-phrase-born-in-the-wrong-body/

Of course, the phrase is one we’ve used ourselves in the past and, at the time, it seemed helpful. Back then, the idea that anyone – let alone a young person – could be transgender or gender-diverse was a new concept for many of those we spoke to. That collective lack of experience meant transgender people and support organisations had to find some way of explaining what being trans meant.

ImherewithBoudica · 13/09/2022 14:38

(But absolutely no to a charity separate from us, meeting the needs and helping the voices of that 7.5 %. Because Reasons.)

ImNotAnExpert · 13/09/2022 14:37

FacebookPhotos · 13/09/2022 14:36

BB I'm not coming across many detransitioners.

And I bet Catholic priests don't come across many ex-Catholics. That's the way with religion - once you're out you don't tend to seek the company or guidance of those who tried to keep you in.

In other news, the Taliban confirm they've not met many apostates lately.

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