Composer suspended over tweet backing Rowling’s gender views

Do you have any advice on where we should go to find out 'the facts' before saying anything online? If we can't get 'the facts' from the newspapers or the internet, where should we go? Perhaps we should just not say anything at all. Is that your suggestion?

Or is your point that because the legal action has not yet started it's incorrect to use the present form 'are', and we should say that they 'are going to'? This really does seem like splitting hairs.

It does. People are going to repeat what the media reports. And the headline of the Times article linked below was literally:

Tavistock gender clinic ‘to be sued by 1,000 families’

So people can hardly blame Christian Henson or Glinner for repeating it.

Interesting - Will Evans is also non exec director of Saffron Records.

Saffron Records
Saffron is a music tech initiative taking an intersectional approach to redressing the gender imbalance in the industry
Women, non-binary and trans people occupy less than 5% of the music tech industry To increase that figure,

How can you be removed from a company you’ve founded?

I have to say I watched that Glinner video inviting Stewart Lee to a debate and my heart sank when I heard him cite the ‘1000 people’ suing the Tavistock -because it isn’t true or accurate. It was a lazy headline that should never have been picked up by any gender critical party. We always talk about critical thinking and the need for clarity and this ‘1000’ figure is just a nice round figure which should have set alarm bells ringing. And then anyone who repeats it looks like they haven’t given the matter the careful thinking it deserves.

This is NOT to say that the Tavistock aren’t going to get lots of lawsuits from previous patients and parents of previous patients. I am sure the law firm attached to this story have already been approached by many (not going to guess at a number). The quoting of this random number does not negate all the facts of the matter which are that the Tavistock was patently not fit for purpose and was failing its patients. It also doesn’t mean that anyone quoting this number is an Ill-informed bigot. It just means that in this instance they’ve been misguided in quoting a sloppy statistic and that’s something that people can use to try and blow a hole in their whole reasoning and argument. Of course that won’t work but it is bloody tedious to witness.

Anyway back to this guy and that grovelling, forelock tugging, self-flagellating apology by the CEO. The CEO is obviously s**ting themselves that their business is going to go down the pan. Not because their business is based on selling music to the trans community but because no one can be in business today and profess concern at depressed 14 year old girls wanting mastectomies. Nothing but full-on celebration of every single child wanting hormones to deepen their voice, grow beards, grow breasts etc… can be countenanced. You must celebrate the trans woman standing in a gossamer thin dress pouring piss all over themselves in a public thoroughfare. You must celebrate the teenager and their GoFundMe page gushing over their favourite plastic surgeon.

And look at the Daily Mail today with Jake and Hannah and their two children. A truly happy family who shine like a beacon to all trans people out there as to what is possible. Except in some ways their story is so unique. Jake needs to spell out the fact that if they’d gone on the Tavistock path as a pre-pubescent child they would never have been able to have any eggs harvested because they would not have experienced their female puberty. And if they had started taking testosterone much earlier in their lives and then suffered from vaginal atrophy, post-orgasmic pain, and then opted for a full hysterectomy (as is advised I believe after a number of years on T) they would not have had the eggs to harvest. Jake and Hannah are lovely, their kids are gorgeous and I wish them well. But they are beacons of hope to a subset of trans people - those who wait until full adulthood before physically transitioning. Which makes their association with Me*ds a tad disingenuous I think.

There's a huge difference between 'could potentially sue' and 'are suing'.

Did you read the quote from the Times in my post?

It says the law firm 'is pursuing a group litigation order against the trust', not 'could potentially sue'.

The Times article from 11 August says that they are intending to sue GIDS.

The law firm Pogust Goodhead has since announced it is pursuing a group litigation order against the trust, which has treated 19,000 children with gender dysphoria (the feeling that one’s emotional and psychological identity differs from one’s birth sex) since 1989.

Former patients given puberty blockers are joining the “class action” lawsuit and papers are due to be lodged at the High Court within six months.

Do you have any advice on where we should go to find out 'the facts' before saying anything online? If we can't get 'the facts' from the newspapers or the internet, where should we go? Perhaps we should just not say anything at all. Is that your suggestion?

Or is your point that because the legal action has not yet started it's incorrect to use the present form 'are', and we should say that they 'are going to'? This really does seem like splitting hairs.

it is kind of funny that we're making the effort to do this while other side says things like "trans women are women"

😆

And that's just the tip of the iceberg really

I saw this blowing up on Twitter the other day. Someone claimed that Christian owned 50% of the company. If this is true, the CEO's job does not look secure.

It's important to get the facts straight otherwise it makes people look stupid and uninformed when they repeat them elsewhere.

Much as I appreciate the effort to get the details right on this side, it is kind of funny that we're making the effort to do this while other side says things like "trans women are women". 😂

Anyway, Christian is allowed to express private agreement with GC beliefs. That much has been enshrined in law whether or not Spitfire grasp the implications of that.

No reports at all (yet) of suits instigated since the report.

Its a class action suit, not individual suits. They take time to get organised. They'll file when they're ready.

While we will have to see how many join the PG suit, I seriously doubt they're staking their reputation with absolutely nothing to go on.

What Linehan said was a reflection of how it had been reported in the media however. The subtleties weren't conveyed well by the press.

The idea that someone has been pushed out of his job for agreeing with a decision made by our NHS in line with the findings of an official report as accepted by our NHS, is truly a sign on the assault on freedom that the trans ideologists have launched.

Does Spitfire not have an HR person or a legal advisor whose professional understanding was alerted by this?

Surely the importance of the ‘facts’ issue is the difference between ‘expected’ and / or ‘potentially facing’ suits, and ARE being sued.

Not the numbers.

It was widely reported that 1000 suits could be ‘expected’. No reports at all (yet) of suits instigated since the report.

The London arts and media scene has been the UK's 'ground zero' for implementing this ideology though. I think it's because it is so white, privileged and middle class, and this ideology has suddenly given them something they - or more often their teenage daughters - can use to claim they too are 'diverse' and 'marginalised'. Those who have gone through with surgically transing their kids caught up in this ideology or in organisations that have allowed themselves to be Stonewalled are now like attack dogs on anyone who dare suggests they have made the wrong decision for their children and failed to act like the adults in the room.

Sorry that was a bit off-topic.

It’s going to be interesting to see who joins this class action. I guess that a person need not be a detransitioner to want to be included. You might end up with quite a few people who are happily “trans” but have side effects from blockers and cross sex hormones that they were not warned about. Side effects of genital surgeries are bound to be high and will only worsen with age and inevitable difficulties with balancing hormone treatments. If the record keeping was poor (which we know it was) and clinicians didn’t discuss the downsides of treatment I can imagine there will be a significant number of people who would feel entitled to compensation. What might stop them claiming is the backlash they receive from their own “community”. A large class action lawsuit would potentially effect the ability of young people to access these treatments in the future. Trans activists often go on about young people taking responsibility for their transition mistakes so I can’t imagine that the “community” are likely to be supportive of trans people who join the class action.

The great irony here is that CH’s tweet that caused all the trouble included Glinner’s YouTube video where Glinner is calling out Stewart Lee’s claim that cancelling doesn’t happen.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/imagine-being-on-the-side-of-sterilising

Wikipedia cites The Times for the 5,000 claim but the article is behind the paywall: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tavistock-child-gender-clinic-forced-to-close-over-safety-fears-2gfj325lt

OK, 50,000 people then if you want to go with 5% and that keeps you happy

Say what now? 🫤 The approximate numbers of those using the service appear not to be in in dispute.

Doesn' make any difference to the point that as of today in there are currently 0 families suing Tavistock (regarding Pogust Goodhead action)

We don't know how many people are preparing a case right at this moment. We will soon find out, I'm sure. Let's pick up then. 😉

What's in the media and Linehan referenced is PG's projection.

Same tactics certainly backfired on the Rosie Kay Dance Company. Wonderful podcast with Raquel and Rosie here. I can't wait to see some of her work now. podcast.filia.org.uk/1983918/11131514-180-rosie-kay-is-here-to-stay

Oops, forgot to refresh the page before my last post and I see that Necessary had already given a better response.

Thanks for the link to a handy number table though. That 5,000 for 2021 in the text is a higher number than I've ever seen before. Are we sure that's right? I thought referrals had plateaued in the last few years.

Oops, forgot to refresh the page before my last post and I see that Necessary had already given a better response.

The total number of referrals to GIDS was 13,274 between 2009/10 to the end of the 2019/20 financial year, plus another 5,000 in 2021:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Gender_Identity_Development_Service#Referrals