Trans woman’s victory in female snooker sparks fairness row (Times, 2 Sep)

"It doesn’t matter what the evidence says? Just a personal opinion"

It's not like there's RCT for snooker is there?

"But the hobby player can catch up with professional women.....why is that????"

Presumably because they do not practice as obsessively as the top men. Reanne Evans would be aware of how much regular practice it takes to get to the top of the women's game and apparently admits it much less than the men's. Perhaps it is less fashionable or there is less expectation of being able to win the life changing prize money for the elite players.

For instance it is noticeable that top players like ray reardon. Steve Davis,Stephen hendry etc would be eclipsed by younger players in turn. It is difficult to believe that this is due to physical decline because it happens from mid 30's onwards.

I've always wondered whether this is because older champions have families and more commitments and of course the hunger may fade as they have already won millions so the hours of practise drop slightly and the potting skills etc as slightly less sharp. As they say in many sports it is the top few% that matters

If a man who didn't even play snooker were to discount the judgement of a 12 time champion he would be accused of mansplaining.

You are going there?

So, a sports scientist discounting a female athlete that states that males don’t have physical advantage despite evidence to the contrary, will be mansplaining?

It doesn’t matter what the evidence says? Just a personal opinion?

But the hobby player can catch up with professional women.....why is that????

"A female snooker player can say there's no advantage if she likes. I disagree with her too.".

But she didn't say there was no advantage it was " mental strength. ". So a "hobby" player playing in local leagues is never going to catch up with professional men who have practised for 8 hours a day for years.

Reanne Evans has come close to beating male professionals in the past. If a man who didn't even play snooker were to discount the judgement of a 12 time champion he would be accused of mansplaining.

If there was no advantage to being male in snooker we would already be seeing women reaching semi-finals and finals of the OPEN competitions. And winning.

We don't have to understand the particulars of the advantage... it is evidenced by the results.

I'm 100% sure that if there wasn't a male advantage at least a large handful of passionate and dedicated women would have made an impact, would have demanded to be allowed to play with and beaten the men fair and square. Equestrianism is not a mixed sex sport by accident. It happened because women demanded the right to try and then could beat the men in large enough numbers to demonstrate meaningful competition.

A female snooker player can say there's no advantage if she likes. I disagree with her too.

True. I was thinking about horse riding and how fantastic it is when women win high profile events when competing against men, or mixed relay races because it's good to see women and men working together. But I wouldn't advocate for mixed sports generally where, as you say, there is an advantage to being male.

Yes. From skateboarders to archers. It is quite amazing.

Walkden

And female athletes also say that about their other sports too!

When it has been proven there is male advantage. So what if a female snooker player wants to play down the differences. There are many females willing to do this to their detriment, we have seen them do it.

There is evidence that males have proportionally longer arms. There is evidence of all sorts of advantages.

You can choose to ignore that evidence, or you can produce your evidence links that says there is no physical advantage.

Yes we're definitely all bigots and prejudiced for wondering how amateur hobbiests can suddenly win elite titles.

Again Jamie's own words in August 2021 from the snooker site posted up thread. "Until this year, cue sports was just a hobby, something I done once, maybe twice a week, but now finding out about the Women’s snooker tour, I believe that will change.”
Yes definitely reflects years of dedication and focus...oh wait no it doesn't!
We hear this over and over again how men who played sport irregularly as a hobby are suddenly catapulted to elite levels when they discover they are women. (The Canadian archer had never picked up a bow a few years before going to the Olympics). Those really are magic words! All sports people should try to say the magic words to boost their career to unimaginable new heights. I wonder if there's a special incantation or potion needed...bit of eyeshadow, lipstick, a bra and stir it about?

Such a physically demanding game snooker. I can see that the outrage stems from that rather than any sort or prejudice or bigotry.

According to actual woman's professional reanne Evans, barriers in snooker are mental rather than physical.

"She believes mental strength rather than physical power is the key factor which sets men apart from the women.

"It can be an advantage if you have cue power but there are a lot of men out there who haven't got a lot of cue power, like [Hong Kong's world ranked number seven] Marco Fu compared to [world number five] Shaun Murphy," she added

So walkden you think that Jamie suddenly developed a singular focus and obsessive practice regimen in the last 2 years that propelled Jamie from being a hobby player to the elites in so little time? Amazing when Jamie was transitioning in that period too. Same old same old, biological women and girls just don't try hard enough eh especially all those women who've been competing at a higher level than Jamie for years but didn't win any elite tournaments.

The physical differences between men and women do make a difference in snooker. As PP have said, male hand size, height and arm reach gives them an advantage over women. I think arm muscle strength also comes into it. My younger brother and I used to play snooker on a 6ft table at home. Once when we were teenagers (maybe me 16/17 and him 14/15), we went to the leisure centre together to play on a full size table. Neither of us had done this before. I struggled to strike the cue ball with enough strength to get it to the other end of the table and he, being two years younger, at the time not massively taller than me and not someone who worked out, had no problem.

I literally can't think of a reason why you can't. I will join you if you get in maybe we should all apply

So if being male isn't an advantage, why has no woman ever got anywhere in the "open" category? Not trying hard enough?

So, you don't think that faster twitch muscles and strength would be handy at all? Not even for maintaining the power through the trajectory of the shot?

You don't think that a larger hand span helps to position over awkward shots and generally a proportionally longer arms are of advantage?

www.open-science-repository.com/correlative-study-of-wingspan-armspan-length-and-body-length-in-students-of-segi-university-malaysia.html

"average taller, greater grip strength, larger hand span & larger 'wing span' for reach"

Seems to be stretching a bit, pardon the pun. Most of these would be dependent on height not male characteristics etc. Surely snooker is a game of skill not strength and the predominant characteristic of great players is obsessive practice and signular focus, rather than grip strength?

No, you’re completely bananas.

HTH.

No male person has tried to play a championship game on one of those premenstrual days when you can't make a cup of tea for bashing the spoon off things or walk through a door without knocking an elbow because your whole body has gone wobbly and wrong either.

"Where there is no advantage to be gained by being male, it's great when sport is mixed sex."

There's usually a big advantage to being male, even if it's not obvious 🙄

Breasts get in the way when playing snooker, and being shorter (including having shorter arms) is a disadvantage. I get that some women are tall and flat-chested, of course, but on average there will be a disadvantage for women vs men.

"I've never heard anything so stupid. Could it be that this person is just better at snooker? Well done Jamie Hunter - good for you."

Yeah, looks like he is better What about him and his circumstances make that the case do you think?

The point is also that it has denied an actual woman a place and a win.
Even if you think that a biological male has no advantage in games like snooker, they are still taking the place of a woman, winning their prize money, sponsorship deals and so on.

Men do not belong in women's sports.
Ever.