Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

@Hearach15 must surely be a GC stooge.
They could not do a better job of showing how awful gender ideology and TRA s are.
Earache I salute you for being such a great gc ally.

Yes jeffg, hearache does a great job of solidifying opinion.

They spent the afternoon on the Barclays thread telling everyone how they support Barclay’s supporting not only misogynist message that they as a bank support the objectification of the female body, but also the transphobic ‘to be a woman a transioned male should aspire to have ‘big tits’ ‘ but also told everyone that any publicity is good.

I didn’t receive any confirmation that hearache was going to approach Stonewall to do a joint media blitz campaign with Barclays across all TV, radio and social media with a transitioning male stating ‘I am a transwoman. And I want ‘big tits’ ‘ because they believed this was such good publicity.

They went really quiet on that.

Now I am looking forward to dissecting their studies and finding out what the studies actually report.

Because even if it actually is the highly unlikely event to report findings that it are so absolutist, as Hearache presents here on this thread, apparently so many of us need educating about how the LGBT community think.

So I am very keen to discover it.

I say, bring it on!

I've been lurking for quite some time and really find @Hearach15 really seems to be making things clear for me !

Please link up the studies you are referring to.

Have you managed to work out the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity, yet, hearach?

"Poll 1,000 people aged 18-24 and they'll have different views to those aged over 65.

"No."

Surprised you know so little about modern British politics. Have a Google how many people aged 18-24 voted for Brexit and then do the same for pensioners.

Similarly, Google what % voted Tory at the last election and then do the same for pensioners.

I think you'll find young and old have very different views on those matters.

🤣🤣🤣

IcakethereforeIam · Yesterday 19:58
"If you had a brain bit communicating that you were Napoleon, or that other people were demons who wanted to kill you or that you could fly, would you recommend a) treatment or b) directions to Moscow, a church or a tall building respectively?"

Ooh, just fucking love it.
And brains generally - very tricky organs.
Shifty bloody bastards.
Not everybody can sort of handle them brains.
One bit of a brain telling the owner:
"It's not what you think, mate and that's that."
And you're pickled.
And all of the sudden you need a lot of really
cheap lipstick and a hairdryer.
And a herd of stupid strangers as "allies".
Can't trust them brains as far as you can throw them.

Balls and cocks, on the other hand...
Well, completely different game.

Yes. To me, it's a doomed to failure form of self therapy.

Whereas presenting as their idea of a woman might have been a signal for other people to use female pronouns, out of courtesy, that's all it was, really. Very few men will actually look like a woman.

It was a signal to other people to behave in a certain way.

Not really a cast-iron solution, in anyone's book.

And certainly not something people will continue when it's evidently detrimental to them.

Excellent post.

I am so glad not to be working in HE now, especially not in my subject (psychology/neurosciences) as I could not bear teaching stuff that I know is not true. A man cannot become a woman. They can identify as female but gender is not the same as biological sex.

Thanks. I was quite pleased when I thought of it! I couldn't work out why I got sucked in for so long while my DH who is not a prejudiced person but doesn't care if anyone else thinks he's woke or not, didn't ever believe the nonsense!

No offence taken - us gender critical feminists really are very nice and reasonable people, aren't we!

people with dysphoria who were presenting to genuinely appear as female to others, as a way to manage their dysphoria, that was arguably a reasonable accommodation

I know what you mean, but of course it's very rare that a man appears genuinely female. It was always a courtesy, indulging the legal fiction.

Doesn't excuse them not following up later for their violence or threats though.

Or indeed of repeating the mistake of under-policing the events? They've got no excuse by now to be underestimating the threat of trans activists.

I agree with you completely matter

So my OH has had some security training, and he has told me unless the police outnumber the threatening group by at least three to one, they won't remove them, they'll remove the victims.

This is a big problem because TRAs probably know this (they're organised). You'd need more police at these demo's than demonstrators to get them to start detaining people.

Doesn't excuse them not following up later for their violence or threats though.

I think the problem is more that the term TW has expanded to be meaningless.
When it meant people with dysphoria who were presenting to genuinely appear as female to others, as a way to manage their dysphoria, that was arguably a reasonable accommodation

The problem now is that (a) there is no definition of TW ( ‘anyone who says they are’ is not a definition).
(b) anyone who says they are a woman, literally is in all circumstances without exception and regardless of the consequence for XX women.
(c) they need make no effort to appear as female, so no one can challenge even the most stereotypically presenting males in female spaces.
D) Anyone who disagrees with the above must be silenced or destroyed.

It’s these tenets of gender ideology that are the problem.

Like many others, I don't actually care how a TW sees themselves, that's their business.

The problem comes when everybody else is compelled to participate in this distorted self image (which is what it is). No other delusion is pandered to in this way, where laws and policy and language are changed to accommodate it, at the expense of others.

Thanks and that’s ok, no problem. Sorry for being snarky earlier.

@Wellies54 I like the boiling frog analogy, especially as the tras don't realise they're in here with the rest of us. Also, to labour the point, when people say, 'it's getting a bit hot, I'm getting out', the tras say, 'but fire', and then try to make sure they'll burn in it.

@mattermore your 'obviously, I made this up', made me laugh.

That's good to hear! Sorry for being patronizing - I agree it's still always good to be critical and think around the subject!

@mattermore Exploring, possible explanations Been there, done that - now out the other side!

@Wellies54

I am fully gender critical and actively so in real life! Very aware of all the issues.

While I'm thinking about it - I also think this is the frog in a boiling pot analogy. There was a big pot called women's rights, gay rights, racial equality, being open minded and accepting. All the good people jumped in. When trans right joined, of course everyone was accepting of people who wanted to challenge gender stereotypes. But very slowly and incrementally we have gone from a few people who just wanted to dress as they wanted and be accepted, to not being able to say that a woman is an adult human female or say that women can expect safe single sex spaces or that teenage girls who aren't feminine can shouldn't be damaging their bodies irreparably or that Lesbians can say no to penises. It's proving very difficult for a lot of people to jump out of that pot! And there are some people doing their very best to keep the kind people in there. However, once you're out it really is like a breath of fresh air not playing ridiculous mind games anymore.

@mattermore No, but the scary thing is that lots of people are right now (Scotland, Bristol). And lots of people are losing their jobs or education because they commit the crime of critical thinking. Did you see the video of the young man who was thrown out of college for saying there are only two genders? Students challenge and question all the time, it's not a crime to have an opinion even if it's factually wrong. Currently, people are facing really serious consequences for stating something which is factually correct. The JK Rowling essay was one of the things which opened my eyes - I actually read it and thought I must have read the wrong thing because it's not transphobic, just caring about women's safety.