Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

Can someone PLEASE think of the CLOWNFISH!

So Hearach - you are still asserting that TW are not biologically male when they become trans women?

A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth.

You are claiming that their sex changes from male to female, biologically. Is that correct? (I'm assuming, again, because you can't answer questions directly, from your use of the past tense). It's easier if you say 'yes' or 'no' instead of commenting on what you think my level of knowledge is, etc.

It's such a shame. I have no doubt the experience of being a gender non-conforming male would give insight into gender biases that we as women don't see, and vice versa. Talking honestly together about what is the same and what is different would expand the bandwidth and the understanding of what it is to be male and to be female in our society.

Instead, we as women experience an act of colonisation where we must subject to redefinition in another's image, with our own voices and truth held to be unsayable, while trans women (only the TRA version, but that's the version currently culturally dominant) are being lead into trapping themselves in a false and impossible idea of womanhood and the pain of being failing to achieve it instead of being accepted for exactly who they are.

And just in case you're interested in transitioning
into a functioning (of sorts) male, the same Royal College (very friendly bunch they are too) has this on offer:

"Erection device
Usually, the phallus needs an internal inflatable or malleable erectile device to attain sufficient rigidity
for sexual penetration. This will need replacing from time to time for mechanical failure."

And once you get that neatly installed, well I should
imagine the world's yours to conquer.
Happy days and I'll drink to that!
Any and all "sufficient rigidity" is always most welcome
in my eyes. Can't argue with "sufficient rigidity",
can you now?

Word salad still doesn't change biology.
Never has, never will.

Deal with it.

Biology is real, sex is real.
And unchangeable.
Call it any made up name you please.
The facts don't change, because facts don't care about your feelings.

Having a "trans history" as a transwoman just means what we all know it means.
Male.

Not sure about bold there!

Also am I alone in feeling hungry when I see tef ? I immediately think of surf and te*f !

Great post Norma , the thing they don't understand about women is .... men have called us horrendous and insulting names for most of our lives, we are used to it , it's nothing new . We don't care anymore after all these names are a lot nicer than some I've been called!

Fucking ‘ell Nora! Wtf are us normies meant to do with THAT? 😵‍💫

@Hearach15 if some men find the truth offensive then tough. I really do not care if I hurt their/his feelings.
call me all the names you want. I don’t care about that either.
If it offends you that we call a man a man, then tough. I don’t care.
The biological truth and the safety, privacy and dignity of women is what I do care about.

This one is very helpful (as well as reassuring),
courtesy of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gyne:

Table 1. Terminology
Cis-woman,
cis-man or cisgendered
A person whose gender identity is congruent with the sex assigned at birth
Trans woman Person assigned male at birth with a female gender identity (AMAB); some do
not use this term and self-describe as ‘woman, with a trans history’
Trans man Person assigned female at birth with a male gender identity (AFAB); some do
not use this term and self-describe as ‘man, with a trans history’
Transsexual A gender identity that is inconsistent with, or not culturally associated with,
the assigned sex; discourteous when used as a noun
Trans gender A more appropriate term than transsexual, which may also imply use of
hormones and/or surgery
Trans feminine Assigned male at birth, experiencing and/or expressing a more feminine
identity, but not necessarily identifying as a woman
Trans masculine Assigned female at birth, experiencing and/or expressing a more masculine
identity, but not necessarily identifying as a man
Non-binary A person who experiences and/or express an identity other than ‘man’ or
woman’; may include people who identify as being of both genders (bigender) or having no gender (agender)
Transitioning Adopting the outward or physical characteristics of the gender one identifies
with, as opposed to the one assigned at birth; not all TGD people will affirm
that they have ‘transitioned’.
Gender dysphoria Distress or psychosocial discomfort associated with the individual’s sex
assigned at birth
LGBTQQIAPP+ An acronym representing lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, questioning,
intersex, asexual, a-romantic, pansexual, polysexual (sometimes abbreviated
to LGBT or LGBTQ+) people.
Top surgery Masculinising (i.e. reduction mammoplasty) or feminising (i.e. augmentation
mammoplasty) chest reconstruction surgery
Bottom (or lower)
Surgery
Masculinising (i.e. phalloplasty or metoidioplasty) or feminising (i.e.
vulvoplasty, with or without vaginoplasty) genital reconstruction surgery
Cis-sexism Prejudice in favour of cis-gender people"

Well, looks pretty simple and straightforward to me.
With that in mind (and I mean all of it) I am just astonished and, err like WTF are we even arguing
about here?!
You know...
I'm going to plaster this all over my fucking living
room (not bedroom though, as this may result...well,
safety first/no nightmares and cold sweats)
and absolutely absorb every single word and phrase.
Absorb, learn and internalise and I'll be cured in no time
at all.
Very easy.

So Hearach - you actually AGREE that transwomen are males who transition to "become" female?

I can't see how your description differs from the one that you took offence to.
They are saying the same thing.

Transwomen are males who transition
ergo
they are males at birth who then transition
ergo
they are transitioned males

Help me out someone?
What's the difference in what order you put the words?

You also have a brass neck trying to tell us what phrases are and are not offensive when TRAs campaign to change language and literature that mention words they find "triggering" or "offensive" (chest feeders, cervix havers, bleeders etc).
Don't you think WOMEN find these terms offensive?
Why does offence only work one way?

Stating biological reality is not offensive.

Many transwomen are perfectly comfortable with their sex and happy to be described as male. You can't presume to speak for all transwomen and it's dishonest to do so.

mirandayardley.com/en/transwomen-are-not-women/

@Hearach15
"They do not like to be referred to as "male" and find it offensive. You continue to do this because you don't care about their feelings."

Oh, FFS!!!
Shoot me right now and put me out of my misery.
Wicked, wicked hags with tits & vaginas calling
males with bollocks & dicks males which so hurts
"their feelings" they can't fucking think straight
with their brains being fried by some faulty wiring.

Send us all an assortment of violins.
Or cellos. And we might just reconsider.

(I'll have a quick lie-down to cry meself a river.)

If you think you can quote a poll of the general British population and think it is somehow reflective of the views of the British LGBT population you know even less about polling than you do LGBT issues.

mmm.... refresh my memory again.

Which specific poll are you referring to that I applied to the UK LGBT population?

Humans can’t change sex so if you are correctly observed male at birth (or born with ambiguous genitals and declared male after further tests) you are also male at death. And vice versa, obvs.

Transgender and sex are two separate things. The clue is in the name.

🤣 , all three are from 2016 , two about the same person , all American!
Try harder!

Except you can't. That is why transphobia is such a threat to butch cis women:

www.newstimes.com/local/article/Woman-mistaken-for-transgender-harassed-in-7471666.php

inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787

www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment

Perhaps we should seek to commission a clearly worded survey - as Helen Staniland did, but specific for LGB respondents?

I expect the dial has moved rather considerably since 2018 and Helen’s questions would now get an even more GC response…

twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1055128928174641153?s=21&t=Hwe9wiwnOn6cVELgXplpSg

Truth isn’t offensive, its just true.

*male at birth

A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at first.

They do not like to be referred to as "male" and find it offensive. You continue to do this because you don't care about their feelings.

jeffgoldblum · Today 11:44
@Helleofabore , "your response has been excellent throughout but I think your wasting your time with earache they don't have the wit to really push their argument across and now I think are deliberately pushing your buttons."

Precisely.
It's like trying to have a rational, fact-based debate
with a toddler having a tantrum fit.
And the best line in all of this is the perennial
"you transphobe stop being so transphobic"
sprinkled with lots of angry saliva.
I for one, wouldn't even bother addressing any
"transphobe" label thrown at me.
Means absolutely fuck all at this point as its
meaning/scope is entirely in the eye (Earache)
of the beholder.
The more unhinged, intellectually bereft they are
the more "transphobic" you become as a result.
Happy to oblige and be a "transphobe" for the rest of
my life then.

If you think you can quote a poll of the general British population and think it is somehow reflective of the views of the British LGBT population you know even less about polling than you do LGBT issues.

Professor Sir John Curtice is the best in the business, I would start with him.

Excellent post, FlirtsWith