Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

There is little evidence of that knowledge.

Don't get me wrong I support get the L out, But within our current legal framework this just seems TRA like

So a minority of people went to a event and then demanded the events to change for them, sorry but sounds kinda TRA like

I never cease to be amazed by the arrogance of people who swan in here thinking we don’t the fucking history of pride!!

Read about the history of Pride.

"Around the country, groups began to plan their own commemorative marches. The first occurred not in New York but in Chicago on June 27, 1970. Around 150 marchers marched from Civic Center Plaza to Washington Square shouting slogans like “Gay power to gay people.” The same day, a small group of San Franciscans marched down Polk Street, then had a “gay-in” picnic that was broken up by equestrian police."
www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/inside-the-first-pride-parade-a-raucous-protest-for-gay-liberation-lgbtq

"The Stonewall riots in turn led to the birth of the Pride movement, where members of the gay and lesbian community took to the streets to demand an end to discrimination. This was a watershed moment in the fight for LGBTQ+ equality; members of the gay and lesbian community were making themselves visible and vocal in ways that could no longer be ignored."
blog.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/2022/06/01/first-20-years-of-pride-in-the-united-kingdom/

"On 1 July 1972, the UK’s first Pride march was held in London. The date was chosen as the closest Saturday to the anniversary of the Stonewall riots of 28 June 1969. The British Library cites the GLF and Campaign for Homosexual Equality (CHE) as key organisers. An estimated 2,000 people attended. Peter Tatchell, one of the organisers, said:
Our aim was to show that we were proud, not ashamed. Determined to come out of the shadows and stand up for our rights, we wanted to make ourselves visible and demand LGBT liberation."
lordslibrary.parliament.uk/pride-in-the-uk-50-years/

The point of a protest is to cause disruption. That's how Pride started: it was a protest movement, not a carnival.

What an oversimplification. You know nothing about the backgrounds of any of the women I mentioned, or their experiences in life. People can be graduates and living comfortably in middle age even if they grew up in poverty.

Andrew Doyle is on GB news at the moment talking about this with a lady from the march.

I just wanted to say, CardiffPridedisrupter, how much I admire your bravery and strength of character.

"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends." - J.K. Rowling

Thank you.

As opposed to straight men in dresses (who feel like they might be women) declaring what Pride should be and who is welcome to attend?

Why so many women were shouting and jabbing at me yesterday and not the men.

To go by a number of lesbian friends who are normally extremely strident on their feminism but suddenly very quiet on the subject of women’s rights in the face of the TQ+ issue, I would say they are very uncomfortable with being seen to be committing “wrong think” in an arena that is strongly liberal and lefty (I say that as a liberal lefty myself!). And that’s just in private, I should imagine “risking” being accused of being GC or transphobic at an event like a Pride march would be even worse, and so they go completely the other way and turn against protesters as a way of saying “I’m nothing like them, I haven’t committed thought crimes so don’t turn on me!” A PP highlighted the witch trials and the parallels are quite something.

I suspect there’s also an element of such women having stood against GC views to start with but now it’s becoming a more accepted view - plus all the court cases that have dragged the various horrors and hypocrisies of Stonewall et all out into the light - they’re having a hard time accepting that they were wrong. So they just dig in deeper.

I did not say out of touch generally. I said they largely had no previous experience of how the police can behave and appear to be taking it personally not understanding this is how the police are and much worse to anyone at all on the margins.

This is a total non-point. Many people are middle class, GC people are not more likely to be than trans activists. The point is that the police behave selectively when it comes to feminists v TRAs.

Deptford People Project leader Lucy McDonagh interviewed here:

“That’s what ‘self-identify’ means: anyone can say they are anyone… So, rich, privileged people can claim to be marginalized.”

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

I did not say out of touch generally. I said they largely had no previous experience of how the police can behave and appear to be taking it personally not understanding this is how the police are and much worse to anyone at all on the margins. Unless the videos and tweets are simple hyperbole?
Because I am basing that assessment on what these women themselves say.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I do not personally know Helen Steel so it would be strange to use a form of grammar that suggested I did.

We're into the 'yes but your voice can be dismissed because' bit aren't we? So far we've touched on:

Old
Out of touch
Probably straight
Middle class

I'll wait for the white bit.

No. Sorry. The world doesn't revolve entirely round bright young things with the right politics from the currently fashionable demographics, that isn't inclusion, which is what Pride should be about. And uncomfortable evidence shouldn't be escaped from on the grounds of 'yes but you're probably from x contaminated group so you don't matter'.

If you want to see the impact of TQ+ politics on people at the toughest end of social deprivation take a look at the open letter from the Deptford Women's Project. Who pointed out that the users of their project were somewhat baffled that their homelessness and substance dependency and struggles to access help using forms requiring high levels of education and literacy, should be put aside to be lectured on the far more oppressed and vulnerable group of TQ+ students who had come to educate them on social justice. All of whom the project noted were in fact themselves white, affluent, highly educated and most of them privately, able bodied, yada yada yada, but wished to have a kind of gentrified identity of belonging to the demographics they saw as the 'right' ones. They were not able to actually connect with or listen to that demographic however, they were too busy telling that demographic about the right ways to think and use their language.

I can just as easily reel off a list of privileged trans activists who are equally unlikely to come into contact with the police. In fact the likes of KJK are far more likely to.

The average GC feminist is no more middle class and out of touch than the average "non binary" activist at Pride.

You don't have to talk about her in an abstract way, it's not that she "will be under no illusions", it's that she is under no illusions, as she was tricked by an undercover officer into a relationship.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I know who she is which is why she will be under no illusions.

Helen Steel certainly does understand a lot about how the police operate.

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/11/it-was-as-if-he-set-out-to-destroy-my-sanity-how-the-spy-cops-lied-their-way-into-womens-hearts-and-beds

I said nice middle-class ladies because it is largely true.
Kellie-Jay Keen - a stay-at-home mum living in a very nice middle-class home.
Helen Steel is a long-term activist and trade unionist, no idea what job she does.
Marion Millar is an accountant.
Kate Scottow, do not what job she is doing but she has a Masters's degree in forensic psychology.
Jennifer Swayne is a former teacher.

Helen Steel with her history of activism will understand what the police are like and how they operate. I have seen videos and tweets of others above where it is clear that how the police operate is a shock. They see it as personal. Not realising that it is their nice middle-classness that so far has protected them from the truth about the police and is still partially protecting them.

How the police behave is wrong. But it is not personal.

she didn't say that either.

I think the penis banner was uncalled for at a family event

ive not finished reading the thread

but good lord…seriously!

I’ll be at FILIA too. I’d just like to see them try to shut down 500 or so determined women.

Yes! And yet they report all sorts of incidents to the police at the drop of a hat.