Lesbians not welcome at Gay Pride

A poll where most respondents are straight is not representative of the views of the LGBT community. I know you are not an expert on LGBT matters I would have thought even you would know most people in Britain are straight.

Well we can sometimes get in some excellent stats and links.

It is like a challenge. How much evidence can hearache avoid, while linking up readers and showing readers the tactics used by some extreme activists.

We know that he was indeed assaulted while someone grabbed his hat.

Well done for celebrating the assault of a gay male at Pride because he didn’t conform to the crowds way of thinking.

Shall I post the other YouGov report about just how intolerant the age group 18-28 and 28-38 are in comparison to the rest of the UK society. again. I know we have posted for you before…. Did you ever read it? That one is eye opening.

Because those really intolerant people believe they are the MOST wonderfully tolerant. Solidarity and all.

Why are people still wasting time with bad faith posters? It's best to ignore them and carry on with the actual discussion.

You have doubled down and brought the intolerance of the LGBT community to everyone reading’s attention. After stating how wonderful it’s solidarity is.

This. For a 'community' that is all for love who you want to love, be who you want to be and tolerance for everyone, the people like Hearache posting on here from that 'community' are some of the most intolerant people I have ever come across. How about actually acting on what you preach?

I know you people know very little about the LGBT community but you should know at this point that to be GC is to be a very small minority in the community.

A recent YouGov survey found the following :

83% of the UK population do not think, or don't know whether a transitioned male should compete in female sports.

66% of the UK population do not think, or don't know whether a transitioned male should use a women's changing room.

This changed to 75% without surgery.

62% of the UK population do not think, or don't know whether a transitioned male should have access to female toilets.

This changed to 71% without surgery.

61% of the UK population do not think, or don't know whether a transitioned male should use women's refuges.

68% of the UK population indicated that they believed that Transitioned males using single sex spaces 'does present a genuine risk of harm' or 'don't know'.

67% of the UK population indicated that 'giving increased recognition and rights to transgender people poses a genuine risk to some women's rights' or didn't know.

Now it is not peer reviewed… but I think we can safely discount your erroneous claim that people who don’t believe that people can change sex and that female’s needs and rights should not be negatively impacts by those of another group are a minority.

"No self-respecting LGB person I know attends Pride any more because it sold out to commercialism years ago."

Odd because millions go nationwide every year and 90% of my LGB mates go. You must be hanging out with some very weird, unfun people if they all hate a party thrown in their honour.

"Because most of the crowd at Pride are straight. I used to go to Pride in the noughties and hand out leaflets advertising free lesbian events. I stopped going when 90% of the women I approached insisted they weren't lesbians".

If you haven't been in over a decade you're really in no place to make sweeping and ridiculous statements about the nature of Pride in 2022.

"A gay male was actually assaulted for wearing an LGB Alliance hat and shirt at a Pride event."

Being booed and made to leave is assault????

I do think that Unherd article really hit the nail on the head:

"Donning an ‘LGB Alliance’ t-shirt to attend a Pride march is, in practice, like going to Catholic Mass wearing a t-shirt rejecting the doctrine of transubstantiation. No wonder Bramham was hounded out."

So true. The LGBT community is very strongly in favour of trans rights, no matter how much transphobes/the LGB Alliance may wish it were not the case

Problematic for LGBA because she was under oath and could not lie.

please continue with the twisting of cherry picked phrases. It does your arguments such a lot of good.

Did you read either figs post or my post? Maybe you didn’t understand them and would like them clarified. Please do ask.

This reply was so completely irrelevant, readers. This poster is trying to deflect that they don’t understand research methodology or they do but want to distract with something irrelevant. Having seen their lack of ability to analyze data in the past, I will keep which one I think it is to myself.

1 Because most of the crowd at Pride are straight. I used to go to Pride in the noughties and hand out leaflets advertising free lesbian events. I stopped going when 90% of the women I approached insisted they weren't lesbians (some of them with a look of horror at the idea they might have been mistaken for one). Pride has turned from a protest to a place where straight people go to party and feel validated that they are LGBTQ+ positive and therefore 'progressive' and kind. Totally unaware of how homophobic and misogynistic Pride and Stonewall are.

2 No self-respecting LGB person I know attends Pride any more because it sold out to commercialism years ago. I know that in a couple of cities they hold an alternative event for those who can't afford the entrance fee to listen to the music or who object to the commercialism.

2 Because any LGB people who do go to Pride are party-people without a political bone in their bodies. There's a deep hinterland of older, political LGB people (who lived through section 28 and AIDS and attended the original Pride protest marches) who won't have rainbows in their homes and wouldn't dream of having anything to do with the Pride movement.

Another wonderful gotcha you are posting for any person still on the fence.

Yes. A gay male was actually assaulted for wearing an LGB Alliance hat and shirt at a Pride event.

And you then wonder why GetTheLOut didn’t bother to negotiate with Pride to join the march in Cardiff.

Well done!! You have doubled down and brought the intolerance of the LGBT community to everyone reading’s attention. After stating how wonderful it’s solidarity is.

We have already told you that you are not the appointed speaker for all LGB people. Or even LGBT people. You are basing your assumption of ‘most’ on nothing but what you see where? Twitter? At the LGB events YOU attend?

Has an omnibus study ever been done around this without any bias being allowed into the results?

No hearache. You made a false claim and you have no evidence.

It has nothing to do with whether or not any person has ‘knowledge’ of LGB issues. The glaring false logic is clear.

"I understood why the 7% was problematic"

Problematic for LGBA because she was under oath and could not lie.

"And I think we are still waiting for the evidence that they are loathed by ‘most’ LGBT people rather than just the vocal LGBT on the internet and in Hearache’s narrow circle."

Wow, I guess Alexander Bramham got booted out of Pride for being too popular then. My mistake - and the media's!

unherd.com/thepost/the-rainbow-wars-get-religious-at-manchester-pride/

This crowd is clearly on his side. They are obviously upset he is leaving:

twitter.com/liambrunetti/status/1431915949347655682?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1431915949347655682%7Ctwgr%5E14f29b7b0bec4a6fb54c09a68ee626d962a4dfe4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Funherd.com%2Fthepost%2Fthe-rainbow-wars-get-religious-at-manchester-pride%2F

So why did Get the L Out get such a bad reception at Pride the other day?

Or indeed the man at Manchester Pride?

"Footage emerging of Alexander Bramham, a gay man, being hounded out of the parade. His crime? Wearing a t-shirt disavowing political alliance between gay and transgender people."

unherd.com/thepost/the-rainbow-wars-get-religious-at-manchester-pride/

Or why did someone wearing an LGBA get kicked out of a Glasgow nightclub?

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/01/21/lgb-alliance-support-t-shirt-polo-lounge-reported-police-glasgow-anti-trans/

I know you people know very little about the LGBT community but you should know at this point that to be GC is to be a very small minority in the community.

Oh, fgs, sorry, I somehow missed a great chunk of the discussion.

'In August 2022 we commissioned a survey of our subscribers to help us plan to deliver services and support to LGB people. One of the questions we asked was about sexual orientation. That data showed that 34% are lesbian, 33% are gay men, 12% are bisexual, 20% are heterosexual and 1% preferred not to say. We are satisfied that this data is robust.'

lgballiance.org.uk/facts/

Mind you. Whenever hearache enters a thread, some really interesting evidence is posted to show how dishonest their posts can be.

Thank you fig. I understood why the 7% was problematic in that it seemed more like a collection error than the reality. (Ie. Not forcing the answer on the survey). But it is good to have some clarity on that.

Maybe hearache will finally stop posting it as some kind of supposedly clever ‘gotcha’. But looking back historically, that may not happen.

In any case, we can keep posting those new stats every time the 7% is wheeled out. Which will show anyone using that 7% figure as being either being deliberately ignorant, just uninformed or unable to change their pattern of behaviour - none of which will show them to be credible in any sense.

The organisers stated that the group would not have been allowed to register or march.

You must be confusing the average LGBT organisation with the LGB Alliance. Now that really is a movement for straights.

@Hearach15 I know personally several of the people who founded the LGB Alliance - in person, not via the internet. None of them is straight.

Obviously, they are loathed by ‘some’ people. But so what?

Interesting turn of phrase, isn't it? Now, who's supposed to be a "hate group" again?

It is clearly evident that the vast majority of hate flows from the QT side to the LGB or female side. The loathing, the screaming mobs, the attempts to drive people out of the public square or their jobs. All from the QT at, well, everyone who gets in their way.

This was immediately obvious to me when I first became aware of the conflict, about 5 years ago, and it's probably gotten worse. Made it very easy to pick sides - listening to the arguments was almost unnecessary, because you could tell the screaming hate mob didn't actually have any counterarguments to the GC view from the way they acted.

Thank you FigRollsAlly.

Hearach's only recourse is misrepresentation.

Most of their support is from the straight community. They are loathed by most LGBT people who know what they stand for.

Complete drivel. Apart from being demonstrably untrue, claiming gay people loathe gay people is just weird. And, to you, 'straight' could be two men, two women, or a man and a woman - nonsensical jibber jabber.

The 'T community' is full of straight men. All those middle aged men who suddenly discover their inner 'lesbian' for example.

Quite. Obviously we expect 'the T' to hate the LGBA. Hence Mermaids trying to litigate them out of existence.

Most of their support is from the straight community. They are loathed by most LGBT people who know what they stand for.

Have we got the break down of the funding for Stonewall by sexual orientation yet? Including the break down of the ‘supporters’ as to what % are LGBTQ+?

And shouldn’t we also consider the breakdown of the people they associate with, including the sexual orientation of the employees of the organisations that support Stonewall.

Let’s compare like for like shall we? Of all people who support Stonewall and are ‘members’. I mean organisational members included too.

And I think we are still waiting for the evidence that they are loathed by ‘most’ LGBT people rather than just the vocal LGBT on the internet and in Hearache’s narrow circle.

Obviously, they are loathed by ‘some’ people. But so what? They represent a group of people who want to focus on LGB issues and these people can also include TQ+ people. They don’t aim to represent everyone and are clear about it.

Only someone fearful of others being able to voice their fully legal opinions that are considered by many as reasonable and acceptable would continue to try to silence them.

Here’s some research I just did on the internet. That 7% lesbian figure always puzzled me. I knew it was used at Allison Bailey’s tribunal but not how it was reached. If you go to the LGBA website there is a page entitled Myths. At the bottom it explains that at the time of the tribunal the only figure they had was from subscribers to their newsletter. They used Mailchimp to send out the newsletter and when setting up the account they asked subscribers whether they were lesbian, lesbian/gay or preferred not to say. It wasn’t a mandatory question, so many people skipped it and on top of that they couldn’t tell which people ticking lesbian/gay were women and which were men. They have since commissioned a survey of their subscribers which shows that 34% are lesbian, 33% gay men, 12% bisexual, 20% heterosexual and 1% preferred not to say.

How do you know that? You have no idea who I am.