Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Bristol City Council consulting on new trans policy

63 replies

severnboring · 27/08/2022 08:35

www.ask.bristol.gov.uk/trans-inclusion-and-gender-diversity-policy-consultation

Following on from passing a 'TWAW TMAM' motion of which the former council Head of Legal said 'I have never seen such a manifestly unlawful motion', Bristol City Council are now consulting on their new 'Trans Inclusion and Gender Identity' policy.

Good thread here: twitter.com/nicjholland/status/1563290810665562112

Consultation open til Oct. It's comforting to know that as an economic crisis hits, at least the council tax money is being well spent by enlightened folx voting to put sani bins in the men's.

OP posts:
Original poster
severnboring · 29/09/2022 12:47

Only a week left on this!

''Activists who shout ‘scum’ and ‘you’re shit’ at ‘terfs’ and men who claim to be able to breastfeed were invited to be part of this process.

Women who don’t want men in their spaces regardless of any identities men may claim were not.''

medium.com/@elsaegret/bristol-city-council-double-down-on-removal-of-womens-rights-75414695a06

OP posts:
Original poster
severnboring · 12/09/2022 08:23

Please take the time to respond to this if you live in, work in, or visit Bristol.

If you prefer not to take the survey format you can email comments instead:

[email protected]

OP posts:
DublinDoris2000 · 04/09/2022 19:45

I've just completed. My blood is boiling at this bit...
"In developing our current policy approach we also considered an option of not recommending free selection of facilities (because of early engagement feedback which expressed concerns about women and girls potentially feeling less safe). We have discounted this option on the basis that although some people may feel less comfortable because they don’t accept transgender identity or think that trans people pose an increased safeguarding risk to others, this is not itself a legitimate or proportionate reason to exclude trans and gender-diverse people from using preferred facilities."
Women's feelings/safety are not a legitimate reason. Fuming!

Vebrithien · 04/09/2022 19:22

Fucking hell, I'm not sure my blood pressure is going to come down after completing that. What a complete and utter shitfest of a council.

We're in Bath now, couldn't stomach what was happening to Bristol.

fabricstash · 31/08/2022 17:47

Done the survey. It is worrying there is no discussion about balancing other rights. There really needs to be more of a focus by the council on third spaces

bishopgiggles · 31/08/2022 14:20

The documents had an error when downloading, but this has now been fixed.

334bu · 29/08/2022 20:26

fovas.wordpress.com/response-to-stonewall-2/

Is this the one?

Watermonster · 29/08/2022 13:04

and finally (am on a roll)
The draft council policy states no one can be harassed if they believe in gender/ identity or say a boy is a girl in school- but are encouraging abuse and bullying of anyone who believes in biological sex (ie gender critical in schoollike this girl)
www.lbc.co.uk/news/girl-18-driven-out-of-school-for-questioning-transgender-ideology/

not a good time to be a child abuse victim, a religious believer or a science student in Bristol schools!

anyone got public links to anything else? There was an open letter from a group representing assault survivors (inc by men who identify as women) but can't find it...saying they could only use single sex services too

Watermonster · 29/08/2022 12:57

and links to the law and EHRC guidance
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents/enacted
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination

The Equality Act Exemptions confirm all males, including those with the characteristic of gender reassignment, can be excluded from female spaces and services where that is necessary to protect female privacy, dignity and safety, or when females will not be able to access services if males are included.

Watermonster · 29/08/2022 12:56

Can anyone add useful links ? eg
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

public loos need to be single sex
news.un.org/en/story/2014/11/484042-ensuring-womens-access-safe-toilets-moral-imperative-says-ban-marking-world-day

UK mixed sex facilities are dangerous for women
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

girls miss school if you make school loos mixed sex (as the council plans)www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/pupils-missing-school-because-dont-15839558

Brighton's school toolkit they want to adopt ignores the needs of girls who have experienced abuse. CoTs have written about what they need in school- totally conflicts with council policy childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/how-to-help-children-of-transitioners/
childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/09/25/not-shutting-up/

Evidence on trans crime to the government consultation
committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/
also transcrimeuk.com/
transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/12/male-transgender-individuals-convicted-of-violence-against-women-children/

Karen Ingala smith in single sex abuse services and stats
www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2019/11/5/single-sex-spaces-for-women-who-have-been-subjected-to-mens-violence

CoTs GRA evidence on everything from single sex abuse support to health messaging-
childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/gra-inquiry-submission/

Bbc on lesbians pressured for sex
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

Watermonster · 29/08/2022 12:38

It is chilling the footnotes refer to SARI Diversity Trust "Road Map for Trans Inclusive Feminism and Women’s Services in Bristol. Their contempt for women and girls is terrifying and scary.

Bristol and North Somerset NHS CCG used the same groups to develop guidance which was then rejected ( there are lots of old links on Mumsnet). The Equality impact assessment on it found it discriminated against nearly everybody else in society -especially women as a sex, older people, disabled people, religious believers/ people who don't believe in gender ideology. It also recommended harmful practices for young girls like breast binding and drugs to sterilise them - and any female patients who didn't consent to being undressed or receiving intimate care from male strangers to be excluded from NHS Care..

The terror it caused amongst some of the most vulnerable women in Bristol was significant, so the NHS invited abuse support women's organisations to give evidence - but they had to keep it secret as the groups were scared Sari and the council would end funding for any group who expressed concern of the trauma it would cause to women.(as is the case)

NecklessMumster · 28/08/2022 16:54

They also have Mermaids training sessions for children's social work

Thelnebriati · 28/08/2022 16:53

IDK if this will help anyone who wants to challenge what's happening in Bristol;
Women are stakeholders, not an infestation.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/27/section/3

LGA guide to engagement
• Equality – The Equality Act 201028 states that public bodies must have “due regard” to a variety of Equalities objectives (Equality Act 2010, Section 149) and consequently, Equality Analysis (formally Equality Impact Assessments) must be carried out to demonstrate that decision-makers are fully aware of the impact that changes may have on stakeholders.”
www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/New%20Conversations%20Guide%2012.pdf

Original poster
severnboring · 28/08/2022 16:28

334 I'm sure that's exactly who it came from, well remembered!

OP posts:
Crikeyalmighty · 28/08/2022 16:27

One reason we moved from Bristol to Bath- couldn't get a decent transport system in , stop everywhere reeking if weed or keep streets remotely clean but were so woke it was untrue when it came to anything like this - and I'm not a Tory!!! I found it an incredibly annoying place , but then I'm 60 now and was 53 at the time

334bu · 28/08/2022 16:18

I wonder if the input from the Bristol University Law Department came from Dr Peter Dunne of the infamous paper used in the Scottish Government's EQIA on the Reform to the GRA proposals. A paper where he said that having a male bodied person in a female changing area was no more uncomfortable for female service users than sharing the area with women who had had breast cancer surgery.

Original poster
severnboring · 28/08/2022 16:15

The framing around 'not feeling safe sharing with trans people' is so dishonest - no geniuses, it's about WOMEN not feeling safe sharing with MEN. Or just not wanting to, which should be the end of the conversation.

OP posts:
Original poster
severnboring · 28/08/2022 16:09

Just looking at the EIA - Stonewall Stonewall Stonewall...

In 'Background and Previous Engagment' it says:

Some of the content in our proposed policy approach (for both policies) is taken from existing Council guidance that was based on material originally drafted by a working group in 2018 led by local charities SARI and Diversity Trust to develop a "Road Map for Trans Inclusive Feminism and Women’s Services in Bristol" with representatives from various LGBTQ+ groups, women’s rights organisations, and public bodies (including BCC and police). In drafting this guidance we also had feedback from local academics at the University of Bristol Law School, and Sociology Dept. UWE Bristol. We circulated a draft version of the guidance document and invited comments from our Bristol City Council LGBT+ staff led group, Stonewall UK, and local women’s rights stakeholders. This feedback was used to inform the final version of the guidance document, which was approved by Corporate Leadership Board in April 2021.

This was an Edward Lord-style fake exercise in consultation:

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

The council are taking women's tax money to spend on advice from males who call us an 'infestation' and want to get rid of our spaces and services.

OP posts:
Original poster
severnboring · 28/08/2022 15:54

I know, bizarre.

I think it's worth carefully looking at all the footnotes. They link to a document on 'Supporting Trans People of Faith' authored by Shaan Knan, the Stonewall trans advisory group member who described Allison Bailey as 'the terfy barrister' when complaining to Bailey's chambers.

Guess what, that doc is also unavailable: www.sayit.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Roadmap-to-Inclusion-Supporting-Trans-People-of-Faith-Shaan-Knan.pdf

OP posts:
334bu · 28/08/2022 14:29

Do you think that they think nobody will begin a response if they make it difficult to see the policy? For anybody who wishes to complete survey the policy is quoted before the comment boxes and it makes chilling reading. As for the EQIA maybe the dog ate it just like the Welsh one sometime ago.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2022 21:13

They've been sneaky...

I would maybe point this out in the response.

334bu · 27/08/2022 21:04

I see they still don't have their policy and EQIA available except by email.

Original poster
severnboring · 27/08/2022 13:33

They've been sneaky...

The pull quote for the section on single sex services:

“If you are accessing a service provided for men-only or women-only, the organisation providing it should treat you

according to your gender identity. In very restricted circumstances it is lawful for an organisation to provide a

different service or to refuse the service to someone who is undergoing, intends to undergo or has undergone

gender reassignment” Equality and Human Rights Commission8"

The quote is from the EHRC's webpage on gender reassignment discrimination, last updated 22/12/21 (www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination)

(as an aside the EHRC need to update!!)

They do not quote from the 4/4/22 EHRC page on sex and gender reassginment discrim - www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/protecting-people-sex-and-gender-reassignment-discrimination

which says:

"In the Equality Act 2010 the protected characteristic of sex protects people from being discriminated against because of being a man or a woman (Equality Act 2010, Section 11) – defined as a male or female of any age (Equality Act 2010, Section 212 (1)). ‘Sex’ is understood as binary – being male or female – with a person’s legal sex being determined by what is recorded on their birth certificate, based on biological sex.....
Exceptions in the Act set out circumstances in which it is permissible to treat someone less favourably because of their sex or gender reassignment, for reasons of public policy or to protect the rights of others. The sex exceptions operate on the basis of legal sex. The gender reassignment exceptions are not determined by whether or not an individual has a Gender Recognition Certificate (the one exception to this relates to the solemnisation of marriage through religious ceremony – Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, paragraph 24). The use of such exceptions generally needs to be justified as being a proportionate way to achieve a legitimate objective."

or the subsequent 27/4/22 new single sex spaces guidance from EHRC:

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-guide-equality-act-sex-and-gender

OP posts:
rabbitwoman · 27/08/2022 12:31

Yes, they send a link to your email to verify your email address.

Swipe left for the next trending thread