Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Parents with inconvenient truths about trans

113 replies

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/08/2022 18:01

This article was posted earlier today but the thread was deleted with the invitation to "feel free to discuss the article but avoid sweeping generalisations based on that"

The article raises all sorts of important questions about the nature of public discourse in relation to "trans" children and (according to the lesbian mother writer) details the hazards of social transitioning very young children which she now sees as "an intentional process of concretizing transgender identity in children as young as 3 years old - the age of the youngest child in this group. When identity is concretized at this young of age, children will grow up actually believing they are the opposite sex. How could medicalization not follow?"

I'm not sure if it's possible to discuss this powerful piece without drawing conclusions and there's evidently a lot of unease about the words of this lesbian parent being openly heard. Which perhaps makes it even more important to ensure a site "by parents, for parents" allows this important discussion? Maybe we can try another discussion and keep within the talk guidelines - or just have the freedom to read her words?

pitt.substack.com/p/true-believer

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 26/08/2022 20:34

CatSpeakForDummies · 26/08/2022 19:02

This really replicated a family I knew well who trans-ed their pre-school child. They kept asking whether she felt like a girl or a boy, but when she'd answer "girl" (her real sex), they'd try again later. As soon as she said "boy" they were all over it, so much attention, so much the impression it was the right answer, didn't ask again.

They talk as if it was child led, to people who didn't know them before, like their DC came up with it out of nowhere, but they asked her all the time - it was insane.

I've seen the same thing with this too. A person I know through a family connection - a child psychologist - asks her daughter every day whether she feels like a girl or boy.

How the daughter is meant to know what a girl or boy sounds like isn't questioned.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/08/2022 20:33

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/08/2022 20:23

we were also told that transgender identity takes a few years to develop in children. They told us that during this period, it is very important to protect the child's transgender identity, and therefore, you must eliminate contact with any family or friends who do not support this identity or go along with it."

Which is treating this as the most important thing in the world. What if the person who is 'eliminated' is a source of comfort, advice, healthy relationships, what if they are warm and kind, what if they help and support in myriad other ways?

This demand for perfection and adherence isn't conducive to children learning about diverse opinions and positions. There's no critical thinking any more.

I find this the hardest - the deliberate alienation of parents / family. We know from all our safeguarding knowledge and understanding of children's wellbeing the importance of family connections. The law is absolutely clear that authorities must work with parents - removing them from a child's life must be the exception and children do very poorly in the care of the state on almost every life measure.
Yet society has stood by and watched while that principle has been openly undermined by adherents of this ideology.

OP posts:
Artichokeleaves · 26/08/2022 20:27

Obviously we can't really engage with or discuss the article because it contains some very, very uncomfortable and unwanted evidence.

I respect this poor woman's own terms for her experience, since lived experience and people's voices are supposed to matter. And deleting their voices does not make the issues go away.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/08/2022 20:23

we were also told that transgender identity takes a few years to develop in children. They told us that during this period, it is very important to protect the child's transgender identity, and therefore, you must eliminate contact with any family or friends who do not support this identity or go along with it."

Which is treating this as the most important thing in the world. What if the person who is 'eliminated' is a source of comfort, advice, healthy relationships, what if they are warm and kind, what if they help and support in myriad other ways?

This demand for perfection and adherence isn't conducive to children learning about diverse opinions and positions. There's no critical thinking any more.

VestofAbsurdity · 26/08/2022 20:18

So despite their claim that social contagion doesn't exist, and you can't make someone trans if they're not 'really trans', they believe that you can make someone who is 'really trans' not trans if they aren't constantly affirmed.
It's all a bit inconsistent. Like everything else about gender ideology.

Ain't that the truth, they contradict themselves every time they open their mouths.

LurkyMcLurkLurk · 26/08/2022 20:06

For me this shows the importance of open debate.

Everything about this woman's identity - her friend group, her political beliefs - required her full belief in gender ideology. She and her partner were celebrated for announcing their child was trans, and told to remove anybody who questioned this new trans identity from their lives.

It took courage for her and her partner to admit their mistake. But it doesn't look like she actively looked for other information or opinions that contradicted gender ideology until her three year old told her no. If those dissenting voices hadn't been suppressed by everybody in her echo chamber, if it had been ok to question this, then maybe her son would not have had to go through this experience.

beastlyslumber · 26/08/2022 20:05

I think that's very harsh and not really fair. It's difficult to walk back from this and she's brave to admit her mistakes. Is she supposed to performatively self-flagellate for you? Be glad that she's changed her mind and hope that you have the same humility and courage if it comes to it.

Nataloof · 26/08/2022 20:01

That article! OMFG. So misguided and also rather controlling even if wrapped up in all that attachment stuff. I wonder if the author of the article is also autistic, it's odd this clinging onto schemata, if its' not the social justice stuff, it's the attachment philosophy. Her parenting doesn't seem intuitive and instinctive but all led by theories and trendy philosophies. Poor children, I'm sorry to say that the parents can't be terribly bright and I think that based on her writing she is incredibly navel gazing and self-centred. Ultimately the parents have no common sense whatsoever.

IcakethereforeIam · 26/08/2022 19:58

@Blister agree, my sympathy is for the children. Not a word of concern from the author about the other children mentioned in the article. Still, at least they came back from it, hopefully before too much damage was done.

I expect they're afraid. Or recognise they'd be wasting their time.

Nellodee · 26/08/2022 19:34

One of my work colleagues told the catering staff she was gluten intolerant then found out she wasn't, but was too embarrassed to admit it, so now eats nothing but gluten free food at work. People struggle with reversing positions far less drastic than this one.

Blister · 26/08/2022 19:26

It is brave of her to admit her mistakes but I only grudgingly want to recognise this.

It only hit home when SHE was personally affected. Only when SHE could see the harm without the shadow of a doubt.

I know first hand that cult thinking (her words) is difficult to see through but my sympathy for those who only see through near-misses is also difficult to rouse.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/08/2022 19:23

So sorry Anonymum263 about your daughter. I hope you've found support from other parents in the same situation? Faced with our children self harming and (so often) in the grip of social contagion, we often have to make difficult decisions.
Do you know of genspect ? Or other organisations that support parents?

genspect.org/

OP posts:
takingmytimeonmyride · 26/08/2022 19:19

It's all about gender stereotypes. While they say it's not all about stereotypes but the only things they ever seem to point out are stereotypes. I mean, basically, their other son couldn't possible be trans because he was masculine and liked boy things. Yet because the other kid was sensitive etc he was? But it's not about stereotypes?

Is that the generalisation that's been made?

Mollyollydolly · 26/08/2022 19:18

Fantastic piece that deserves sharing widely. I admire their honesty. What a horrific mess we are creating with this stuff.

IStandWithMaya · 26/08/2022 19:14

“A woman is someone with a female body and any personality, not someone with a female personality and any body”,

I wish the trans brigade could see this.

Anonymum263 · 26/08/2022 19:14

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius I really resonate with this. My child has completely taken the view that she's male and has now embarked on hormones, binding, etc. Whenever I looked at her growing up, I never thought 'boy'. I thought 'kick-ass girl.' I didn't have the vocabulary or the courage (she was self-harming, saying that I hated her - and her dad supported her) to keep pushing back.

Blister · 26/08/2022 19:07

picklemewalnuts · 26/08/2022 18:33

Perhaps we can make a special effort not to engage with ploppers and stirrers? Seagulls and Sealions et al.

But mum!
Oh alright...

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/08/2022 19:04

Agreed Kanaloa . It's a hugely courageous article to write and her grief about what she may have done to her child is heartbreaking. And yes - we must enable people to step away from unthinking rigid positions - especially in relation to children. Despite my fury at so many educationists, medics and others for their lack of due diligence and inability to stand up to intimidating groups / individuals in relation to children's safety and wellbeing, what matters most is that we move back to a position where the welfare of the child is paramount, not the demands of political activists.

OP posts:
CatSpeakForDummies · 26/08/2022 19:02

This really replicated a family I knew well who trans-ed their pre-school child. They kept asking whether she felt like a girl or a boy, but when she'd answer "girl" (her real sex), they'd try again later. As soon as she said "boy" they were all over it, so much attention, so much the impression it was the right answer, didn't ask again.

They talk as if it was child led, to people who didn't know them before, like their DC came up with it out of nowhere, but they asked her all the time - it was insane.

Kanaloa · 26/08/2022 18:52

It’s brave of her to admit she was wrong though - I think sometimes that’s the issue with this type of topic. People feel there’s no way to back down gracefully as it’s embarrassing. It reminds me of the movie Dogma if anyone’s seen that, where one character says he prefers ideas to beliefs because ideas are easy to change but beliefs become part of who you are so it’s difficult to change them as it feels like betraying your principles. I think a lot of people feel like that - if I change my mind am I still the same person? Type of thing.

Kanaloa · 26/08/2022 18:50

At the nursery I work in we often make the kids line up in smaller groups to avoid a stampede to the outdoor play area. Sometimes we’ll say ‘if your name begins with A’ and do it by letter. Sometimes ‘if you are wearing wellies.’ Sometimes ‘if you are a boy please line up/if you are a girl.’

Inevitably no matter what you do Isaac will try to line up with the ‘if your name begins with A’ and Alice will go with her sandals to line up with the ‘if you are wearing wellies’ and Evie will line up with the ‘if you are a boy.‘ Because they are preschoolers. Their comprehension skills are still developing, their sense of self and identity is still fluid and often confused by their lack of understanding. So how on earth does it come to a 3 year old being sure they are born in the wrong body, when most of them don’t have a clue what day of the week it is at circle time?

FixItUpChappie · 26/08/2022 18:45

Wow this is such an important piece. Im a social worker and the ways my colleagues and other professionals fall all over themselves to be socially “progressive” around gender, the way parents are patronized and sidelined and the cult like quality of it all makes me very alarmed.

SpindleInTheWind · 26/08/2022 18:43

I think people should bookmark this article. And read it.

beastlyslumber · 26/08/2022 18:37

This is a really important article, and the writer is brave to admit to her mistakes. It was heartbreaking to read her realisation of how she was harming her children by doing what she thought was right "for the world". So sad. Thank goodness she came to her senses, and thank God she's been honest enough to share this.

OldCrone · 26/08/2022 18:35

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/08/2022 18:27

I would think this section resonates with countless UK parents who are being pressurised to uncritically affirm their child's decision that they've been "born in the wrong body".
"we were also told that transgender identity takes a few years to develop in children. They told us that during this period, it is very important to protect the child's transgender identity, and therefore, you must eliminate contact with any family or friends who do not support this identity or go along with it."
Most of the trans guidelines (written for schools by self invested adults and queer theory pressure groups) signpost schools and children to social services to tackle parents who raise concerns about social contagion, safeguarding and the use of untested unevidenced medication on children's bodies.

So despite their claim that social contagion doesn't exist, and you can't make someone trans if they're not 'really trans', they believe that you can make someone who is 'really trans' not trans if they aren't constantly affirmed.

It's all a bit inconsistent. Like everything else about gender ideology.