Page 2 | Parents with inconvenient truths about trans

MrsOvertonsWindow · 2022-08-26T17:01:40+00:00

This article was posted earlier today but the thread was deleted with the invitation to *"feel free to discuss the article but avoid sweeping generalisations based on that" * The article raises all sorts of important questions about the nature of public discourse in relation to "trans" children and (according to the lesbian mother writer) details the hazards of social transitioning very young children which she now sees as "*an intentional process of concretizing transgender identity in children as young as 3 years old - the age of the youngest child in this group. When identity is concretized at this young of age, children will grow up actually believing they are the opposite sex. How could medicalization not follow?"* I'm not sure if it's possible to discuss this powerful piece without drawing conclusions and there's evidently a lot of unease about the words of this lesbian parent being openly heard. Which perhaps makes it even more important to ensure a site "by parents, for parents" allows this important discussion? Maybe we can try another discussion and keep within the talk guidelines - or just have the freedom to read her words? https://pitt.substack.com/p/true-believer

TheSunnySide · 27/08/2022 11:26

I recently saw a post from a person I follow on Instagram who is crowdfunding to have her teenage daughter’s breasts removed. It is just so upsetting to hunk that in a few years this child is probably going to regret all of this but may be too scared to say so because it would mean turning against the cult.

each day I see these things happening and feel so powerless to intervene. We need to be able to talk about it.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 27/08/2022 11:24

A person I know through a family connection - a child psychologist - asks her daughter every day whether she feels like a girl or boy. How the daughter is meant to know what a girl or boy sounds like isn't questioned.

A child psychologist. That is terrifying. Not only for her daughter but for every child she encounters in her work. Truly terrifying.

Farmageddon · 27/08/2022 11:22

TheKeatingFive · 27/08/2022 10:20

I’m sorry but how thick and gullible must you be to swallow this crap? If someone told you that children could pick their species and some children were human while others were actually puppies, would you just nod along? Disengage your critical faculties because you think it’s ‘cool’??

I do wonder how we got to this point.

I don't know about the author, but lots of people spouting this stuff are well educated. I guess that doesn't mean their critical thinking skills are much cop. But for such large numbers of people and organisations to be taken in by this. How did it happen?

I suppose certain types, who base much of their identity on being alternative (i.e. special, and look down on conventional types), want to carry that on when they have children. The fact that she's educated just means the is more arrogant in her belief that she is right.

They way she describes herself 'social justice organiser and facilitator....the cool kids, the vanguard of revolutionary work to change the world...' It's all self important dribble, the kind of stuff you hear from teenagers.

Because she's alternative, she may have viewed having a family as a very ordinary and conservative and conventional thing to do (it's not really, for most people it's wonderful), but for the alternatives, who when they were younger pictured the 2.4 family in the suburbs as the ultimate failure of specialness, when they find themselves as just another parent, they need to augment that with a special parent identity.
Actually many parents have one - the super eco warrior hippy parent, or the pushy over achievement parent etc. so it's not unusual.

So she became a queer parent (gaining special identity points) because lesbian parent isn't cool enough anymore, whose children were very definitely going to be special also (trans - extra bonus special identity points), because she sees her children are a reflection of her, and not as individuals. It's all an ego trip.

Thankfully she gave her head a wobble before she damaged her children even further.

TheKeatingFive · 27/08/2022 11:10

Seems that to be the wokest of the woke you need a trans child?

Whats shocking is that being woke seems to be more important for some than the well-being of their children.

The author saw the light and thankfully was able to roll back. But others won't.

Toboggan · 27/08/2022 10:52

Seems that to be the wokest of the woke you need a trans child?

TheClogLady · 27/08/2022 10:48

I hope health visitors aren’t resorting to plotting child growth on the opposite sexes charts (growth trajectory sex different from birth so I don’t know why sports are obsessed with male puberty as the cut off - it should be being born male).

lizziesiddal79 · 27/08/2022 10:47

Kanaloa · 26/08/2022 18:50

At the nursery I work in we often make the kids line up in smaller groups to avoid a stampede to the outdoor play area. Sometimes we’ll say ‘if your name begins with A’ and do it by letter. Sometimes ‘if you are wearing wellies.’ Sometimes ‘if you are a boy please line up/if you are a girl.’

Inevitably no matter what you do Isaac will try to line up with the ‘if your name begins with A’ and Alice will go with her sandals to line up with the ‘if you are wearing wellies’ and Evie will line up with the ‘if you are a boy.‘ Because they are preschoolers. Their comprehension skills are still developing, their sense of self and identity is still fluid and often confused by their lack of understanding. So how on earth does it come to a 3 year old being sure they are born in the wrong body, when most of them don’t have a clue what day of the week it is at circle time?

This x1000.

When I was 3, I apparently used to tell people my name was Malcolm. My daughter at 3 said she wanted to grow up to be a fire-engine. Not a firefighter. An engine. My niece at 3 believed she would be the tooth fairy one day. My friend's 3-year-old wanted to be a picture frame! 🤷‍♀️

angeltop · 27/08/2022 10:27

Kanaloa · 26/08/2022 18:50

At the nursery I work in we often make the kids line up in smaller groups to avoid a stampede to the outdoor play area. Sometimes we’ll say ‘if your name begins with A’ and do it by letter. Sometimes ‘if you are wearing wellies.’ Sometimes ‘if you are a boy please line up/if you are a girl.’

Inevitably no matter what you do Isaac will try to line up with the ‘if your name begins with A’ and Alice will go with her sandals to line up with the ‘if you are wearing wellies’ and Evie will line up with the ‘if you are a boy.‘ Because they are preschoolers. Their comprehension skills are still developing, their sense of self and identity is still fluid and often confused by their lack of understanding. So how on earth does it come to a 3 year old being sure they are born in the wrong body, when most of them don’t have a clue what day of the week it is at circle time?

👆this, all the way.

TheKeatingFive · 27/08/2022 10:20

I’m sorry but how thick and gullible must you be to swallow this crap? If someone told you that children could pick their species and some children were human while others were actually puppies, would you just nod along? Disengage your critical faculties because you think it’s ‘cool’??

I do wonder how we got to this point.

I don't know about the author, but lots of people spouting this stuff are well educated. I guess that doesn't mean their critical thinking skills are much cop. But for such large numbers of people and organisations to be taken in by this. How did it happen?

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 27/08/2022 10:10

@MrsOvertonsWindow "I am told that this has now changed completely; other professionals recognise that it is not helpful to exceptionalise gender identity issues, and that they have the transferrable skills to work in this area".

I think Dr Cass was specifically talking about Finland - she goes on to say "There are useful lessons that we can take from their experiences."

BreatheAndFocus · 27/08/2022 10:07

The writer seemed more interested in ‘being progressive’ than doing the right thing. I’m sorry but how thick and gullible must you be to swallow this crap? If someone told you that children could pick their species and some children were human while others were actually puppies, would you just nod along? Disengage your critical faculties because you think it’s ‘cool’??

What really gets me is that lesbians are often GNC and taunted as being ‘mannish’ or ‘not a proper woman’ and yet here we are, promoting idiotic stereotypes left, right and centre. I know we’re supposed to read the article and sympathise with the OP but I don’t. I think they’re making excuses for the harm they did and because they’re now embarrassed at how they were taken in.

Ironically, instead of the parents ‘being their true selves’ they were more concerned with the outward appearance of being ‘progressive’ and scoring brownie points as a ‘queer family’. My sympathy is only with their children. IMO, it’s actually evil to f**k with children’s heads like this.

Musomama1 · 27/08/2022 10:04

Very glad to read this. A few years ago it became a bit of a thing with a few earnest parents to raise their child as gender neutral.

Before I knew of any of the issues my instinct was, why would you conduct a huge social experiment on your child?

One of the issues coming up seems to be the child getting attention and praise from the parent if they are trans. And I wonder if the second sibling saw that and wanted to please their parents too?

Pinkyxx · 27/08/2022 09:59

Very brave and powerful article, should be read by all parents!

Original poster

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/08/2022 09:59

TheClogLady · 27/08/2022 09:52

What struck me about this story is how no one professional intervened or even seemed to question the parents choices.

Perhaps the US is very different but here we have health visitors & school nurses and children will see GPs, attend vaccination clinics and developmental checks, and meet playworkers, nursery nurses, teachers etc.

I’d like to think that someone transing a 3 year old would be questioned about it and perhaps even referred to social services by a concerned adult and that you couldn’t have a primary age child live in the opposite sex role for years without being challenged but perhaps I am naive and it’s all completely captured?

Regrettably all those sources of support and safeguarding were politically captured at an early stage by trans pressure groups. However, I note that Dr Hilary Cass has commented that :
"Across schools, social services and local children’s mental health services, staff did not feel that they had sufficient knowledge or expertise to explore gender identity or even address other issues that these young people might be struggling with. I am told that this has now changed completely; other professionals recognise that it is not helpful to exceptionalise gender identity issues, and that they have the transferrable skills to work in this area".

If she means that children's wellbeing is finally being prioritised over adult lobby group demands, then that would be great. But until we see clear evidence of this, I'll remain sceptical.

OP posts:

EllieQ · 27/08/2022 09:58

TheClogLady · 27/08/2022 09:52

What struck me about this story is how no one professional intervened or even seemed to question the parents choices.

Perhaps the US is very different but here we have health visitors & school nurses and children will see GPs, attend vaccination clinics and developmental checks, and meet playworkers, nursery nurses, teachers etc.

I’d like to think that someone transing a 3 year old would be questioned about it and perhaps even referred to social services by a concerned adult and that you couldn’t have a primary age child live in the opposite sex role for years without being challenged but perhaps I am naive and it’s all completely captured?

Not sure how much professionals would intervene in this kind of case. I know there was one case where a child was removed from his mother and residency awarded to his father due to concerns about the mother transitioning the child, but there were other issues there as well. Any intervention could be seen as transphobic.

Family Law Article

Danascully2 · 27/08/2022 09:53

As a mum of two sons of similar ages I read this with interest. One had a long phase of regularly dressing up as Elsa/pretending to be Elsa. Not any other princesses though, just Elsa. I hope he will grow up to be a boy who is confident to explore whatever interests he has. I also remember a conversation between my two when they were about 5 and 3 (both boys). 3 year old -'Im a girl'. 5 year old - 'no you're a boy' 3 year old with emphasis - 'no im a dinosaur' (sorry for lack of apostrophes!).

TheClogLady · 27/08/2022 09:52

What struck me about this story is how no one professional intervened or even seemed to question the parents choices.

Perhaps the US is very different but here we have health visitors & school nurses and children will see GPs, attend vaccination clinics and developmental checks, and meet playworkers, nursery nurses, teachers etc.

I’d like to think that someone transing a 3 year old would be questioned about it and perhaps even referred to social services by a concerned adult and that you couldn’t have a primary age child live in the opposite sex role for years without being challenged but perhaps I am naive and it’s all completely captured?

Original poster

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/08/2022 09:49

Thanks for that link WarriorN Transgender Trend are a mine of resources for adults seeking to support children through all this.
There's a TT article which is directly relevant to this - a psychologist's analysis of the catastrophic impact socially transitioning young children has on their psychological development:

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/:

OP posts:

Beamur · 27/08/2022 09:44

I think this article should be widely read and the author has been brave and honest in the experience her family went through.
It neatly encapsulates the reasons why good, decent people buy into this for their children and are sure they're doing the right thing.
Expecting children to understand complex concepts like sex and gender without any objective frame of reference is doomed to fail. I'm exasperated by people ascribing 'trans' to perfectly normal stages of child development.

WarriorN · 27/08/2022 09:33

TheKeatingFive · 27/08/2022 09:09

Another thought I had reading this is what are autism experts and charities doing about this issue? Given that those with autism are so over represented in this area.

They've been captured. Particularly the National autistic society.

However this free download from transgender trend by Jane Galloway, also autistic, is the absolute best thing you'll read explaining all the ins and outs.

www.transgendertrend.com/product/autism-gender-identity/

WarriorN · 27/08/2022 09:28

Also this idea people with autism are aware of their gender identity earlier... more likely they are less likely to have caught the prevailing understanding of boy/girl, surely? They are later to realise they are a boy, rather than earlier to realise the aren't!

All children are different and certainly autistic children are also all very different indeed. A key area that some have difficulty with is central coherence. Simply put, they find it difficult to pull all the details together and have difficulty generalizing and transferring concepts across different contexts.

So it's a difficulty around stereotypes and generalisation. Children aged 2-4 naturally pick up on stereotypes very early; especially in pictures and caricatures. children have to learn a variety of complex details adding to the bigger picture and a neurotypical child finds this easier. But it takes time; I'm still having discussions with my 4 year old about men and boys who have long hair aren't girls.

Being gender neutral is simply not limiting your child to all the toys and hobbies, styles and colours there are. It's about the stuff being interchangeable, not the child.

TheKeatingFive · 27/08/2022 09:09

Another thought I had reading this is what are autism experts and charities doing about this issue? Given that those with autism are so over represented in this area.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 27/08/2022 09:07

I also wondered about veracity, and about autism. Something about the writing style, very emotionally dramatic in some ways yet oddly abstract and jargon-laden in others.

One thing I noticed is how little she says about family. She says she dropped people from her life if they didn't support this approach. So who did she drop? Has she apologised and explained to her children's grandparents, aunties and uncles, and rebuilt bridges with them? I wonder how much her family were involved with her life and her children's lives in the first place. Maybe she lacked those wider family connections in her own life, which made her especially vulnerable.

LaughingPriest · 27/08/2022 08:59

And as usual, the writer repeatedly conflates "female" and "feminine". That this is done so much and so unthinkingly is how this stuff doesn't get questioned. The two can be mutually exclusive! They are very distinct concepts!

TheKeatingFive · 27/08/2022 08:55

It highlights to me how important it is that we give people space to reverse or revise their opinions, even if we think they're complete bloody idiots to start with.

This is true. Very important to work on this bridge building.

The author is very candid about how she got caught up in being the 'cool liberal vanguard' and how they were cheered on by their social circle in what they were doing.

It is extraordinary to me how this particular cohort of people have thrown basic parenting, common sense and safeguarding out the window. I see it in my own acquaintances also. I wonder how to get these people to reconnect with their basic parenting skills?