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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Exam breakdown to be done by male female and non binary

35 replies

hedgehogger1 · 24/08/2022 23:26

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/joint-council-for-qualifications-exam-results-alevel-stonewall-pearson-b2151855.html?amp

So even exam results analysis is being stonewalled now. Some of the teenagers I teach would just pick the non binary category without even knowing what it means. Seems to render the whole thing completely pointless

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Artichokeleaves · 25/08/2022 14:30

The Cass report could potentially be linked up to some very interesting and useful data to support TQ+ identified children, not least:

  • Appointments and medical visits, what impact on attendance? Particularly considering the travelling often involved
  • Impact on education of medical interventions including puberty blockers
  • distressed children with the intense introspection and vulnerability to triggers, what impact on access to learning and to achievement in key school years?

What impact does this have on teenagers at probably the most important time of their school life with exams having the longest term lifetime impact? What could be done better if there are impacts? Are the impacts the same for female children as opposed to male children?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/08/2022 14:01

Agree that there needs to be an urgent look at the academic / school data around children confused about their sex. Like others, I'd be certain that getting caught up with the toxic adult groups gaslighting children into believing their bodies can be fixed with drugs and surgery will have had a catastrophic impact on their attainment, attendance and emotional health and wellbeing.
One of the fallouts that Cass identified was that GIDs unthinkingly followed the trans affirmation route and ignored all the associated mental health problems these children present with. That doesn't bode well for academic attainment vital to give them options for their future.

FrancescaContini · 25/08/2022 13:07

Fenlandia · 25/08/2022 12:52

Great point, potentially if someone declares their gender identity at the beginning of the school year, they've then changed it altogether by the time of the exams and find it really triggering to be logged in the system as the other thing? Do we have to do weekly surveys to keep this up to date?

Yes. God forbid a very fragile teenager is TRIGGERED by being “misgendered” or whatever this would be called.

Any secondary school teachers reading who’d like to comment on this?

Fenlandia · 25/08/2022 12:52

FourChimneys · 25/08/2022 11:16

Bonkers, absolutely bonkers.

Half of them will have changed their "special category" numerous times between sitting the exams and getting results. It's just how teens are, like being a punk or whatever was when I was a teen.

What we actually need to know is how XX pupils are doing compared to XY pupils. The rest is fluff and nonsense.

Great point, potentially if someone declares their gender identity at the beginning of the school year, they've then changed it altogether by the time of the exams and find it really triggering to be logged in the system as the other thing? Do we have to do weekly surveys to keep this up to date?

Criticycle · 25/08/2022 12:18

Would this not be a violation of our protected beliefs, Is the school not pushing a different protected belief on our children?

FrancescaContini · 25/08/2022 12:10

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 25/08/2022 09:07

But sex must still be recorded obvs, anything else is idiocy

absolutely

Yes, absolutely. Otherwise you may as well collect data like this:

male/female/people who prefer cats to dogs
male/female/those born under the star sign Leo
male/female/people who believe in Santa

And any other such completely irrelevant information.

Thelnebriati · 25/08/2022 11:28

Since the resulting data will be garbage and it goes against The Equality Act; is it GDPR compliant to do this?

Whatwouldscullydo · 25/08/2022 11:22

Ohfgs.

How are we meant to address issues re one sex doing significantly worse than the other sex if we don't have accurate information.

Its not an exam boards job to validate a child's gender identity ffs. Why is everyone being roped Into things that aren't their job or their responsibility and presumably not getting paid for the extra responsibility they now have.

FourChimneys · 25/08/2022 11:16

Bonkers, absolutely bonkers.

Half of them will have changed their "special category" numerous times between sitting the exams and getting results. It's just how teens are, like being a punk or whatever was when I was a teen.

What we actually need to know is how XX pupils are doing compared to XY pupils. The rest is fluff and nonsense.

babyjellyfish · 25/08/2022 10:58

Why can't they record both sex and gender, if they think the latter is important?

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2022 10:32

TheClogLady · 25/08/2022 10:21

I’d be interested in attendance figures for trans and non binary identifying kids and SEN stats too.

in fact, what I’d really like is some sort of schools census to get a proper understanding of how many ‘trans kids’ are on the school roll of every school in the country. Might help us get a more accurate picture of the scale of the phenomenon.

(as long as they clearly record sex as well as any special genders obvs)

It might show up clustering too.

I doubt the transactivist orgs really want accurate stats tbh.

Artichokeleaves · 25/08/2022 10:29

^^ That

How is there any way to know the demographics of TQ+ identified children in any way that supports and betters education and provision for those children without knowing clearly all the relevant information, the basic first of which is sex?

For a start, we know already that we are talking in massive majority about teenaged girls. But which teenaged girls. What's the crossover with other needs since there's a lot of floating suggestive information that many of those girls are likely to have Autism, diagnosed or undiagnosed (and unsupported), mental health needs also both diagnosed and undiagnosed (and unsupported), trauma, history of CSA/DV/DA, is this equal across all areas and socioeconomic backgrounds, etc etc etc

If we don't know then the data does nothing to help improve the circumstances and chances of those children and gathering it is just about some adults patting themselves on the back about how very very open minded and lovely they are. And no. If you're not focused on how does this data improve things for those kids, it does not signal to others how very lovely and progressive you are.

TheClogLady · 25/08/2022 10:21

I’d be interested in attendance figures for trans and non binary identifying kids and SEN stats too.

in fact, what I’d really like is some sort of schools census to get a proper understanding of how many ‘trans kids’ are on the school roll of every school in the country. Might help us get a more accurate picture of the scale of the phenomenon.

(as long as they clearly record sex as well as any special genders obvs)

Artichokeleaves · 25/08/2022 09:51

Ooh how are the frost gendered kids doing? Are they doing better than the demi boi Goliath gendered fae fluid ones? What does this tell us about how education could be developed to work better for....

Ffs. What a waste of everyone's time and money on a lot of pointless wankery.

PeriodBro · 25/08/2022 09:29

If they're recording by gender type I'm starshine-dusk-firefly and I will fight to the death to be recognised. I am valid!

PeriodBro · 25/08/2022 09:29

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2022 08:19

The only problem here is NOT recording sex. The "non-binary" bit is irrelevant, except where it's undermining the sex recording.

I'd personally have no problem with extra stats about "trans" and "non-binary" being collected. As long as it was voluntary, and sex was also recorded so we knew which were male and female.

It might produce some very interesting information, getting a profile of female non-binaries versus male non-binaries. I'd be all in favour of seeing clear sex-disaggregated data about the "non-binary" population.

Yes, me too.

Same. As ever, additive measures are not really an issue, so long as you don't throw out material reality in favour of faddy ideological theory.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2022 09:13

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 25/08/2022 09:07

But sex must still be recorded obvs, anything else is idiocy

absolutely

That's their basic error.
They've always recorded sex. That includes every single child. But some idiot has relabelled it as 'gender type'. The label is meaningless guff which doesn't define any clear categories. 'Gender type' is useless for any sort of statistical analysis.
They need to put the label back to being 'sex' and remember what the purpose and limits of data is.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 25/08/2022 09:07

But sex must still be recorded obvs, anything else is idiocy

absolutely

MagpiePi · 25/08/2022 08:52

Vargas · 25/08/2022 08:34

As long as sex is still recorded, I think it would be quite interesting to know how many teenagers identify as nb or trans, and then to see how this changes over time.

But sex must still be recorded obvs, anything else is idiocy.

Why is it up to an exam board to collect this data?

MagpiePi · 25/08/2022 08:51

Why not ask which football team candidates support, but obviously without the option to say 'I do not support a football team'?

' 'It'll show they are real people'
Responding to the proposals, Dr Jane Hamlin, the president of Beaumont Society charity which supports transgender and non-binary people, Dr WooWoo McWooFace, the president of the BlowOff society charity which supports football fans told The Telegraph: “It’s going to show that transgender and non-binary people Tottenham, Rangers and Burnley fans are recognised as real people and it's a good idea.”

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2022 08:35

WalrusSubmarine · 25/08/2022 08:25

Wouldn’t it also make it easier to identify the person. If you only have one nb student taking exams that year it’s impossible to make their results anonymous. Everyone know it’s Zand.

They certainly wouldn't be able to use the data at the school level, though I don't know if they would do that anyway - unfortunately in mixed sex schools the 'one girl in the physics/comp sci/etc class' thing still happens.

Vargas · 25/08/2022 08:34

As long as sex is still recorded, I think it would be quite interesting to know how many teenagers identify as nb or trans, and then to see how this changes over time.

But sex must still be recorded obvs, anything else is idiocy.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 25/08/2022 08:29

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2022 08:19

The only problem here is NOT recording sex. The "non-binary" bit is irrelevant, except where it's undermining the sex recording.

I'd personally have no problem with extra stats about "trans" and "non-binary" being collected. As long as it was voluntary, and sex was also recorded so we knew which were male and female.

It might produce some very interesting information, getting a profile of female non-binaries versus male non-binaries. I'd be all in favour of seeing clear sex-disaggregated data about the "non-binary" population.

Yes, me too.

This 100% this

They can ask students whether they identify as anything they like, they can ask them their favourite colour too if they like as long as they also accurately record the sex of the students

WalrusSubmarine · 25/08/2022 08:25

Wouldn’t it also make it easier to identify the person. If you only have one nb student taking exams that year it’s impossible to make their results anonymous. Everyone know it’s Zand.

napody · 25/08/2022 08:24

334bu · 24/08/2022 23:36

Easy way to reduce the achievement gap between boys and girls. No need for any extra input for boys to redress the problem, just persuade half the girls to register as non binary

My first thought was as this may disadvantage males more, it won't last.

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