Police force to abandon 'Gender Neutral' headwear

Have you ever worn a uniform in a regular job? It's a bit shitty to go to work every day in something that's unflattering. And it often looks less professional.

What is the real gain from saying the uniforms have to be exactly identical? That people won't realize that there are two sexes in the job? That somehow they will think, oh, they must be equally good at the job since they are wearing the same thing? Neither of those are logical thought processes.

This is an area that has been focused on in a way that doesn't actually have much payoff. It doesn't prevent sexism in workplaces.

But it would affect external design. And even if it didn't you'd still end up with men looking smart in a flatteringly cut and styled uniform and women looking untidy, which affects public perception. Women in responsible jobs deserve to look smart in their mandatory uniforms.

Urgh fgs.

The police uniform should be functional and protective where possible . That may or may not mean that they need to be designed differently for men and women as their body make ups are different and any protective parts will need to be in the right places.

Ideally headgear should also protect their heads.

Personally worrying about baseball hat vs bowler cap is a waste of time. The police are not viewed the way they are cos of a baseball hat. Its because of how they have behaved. If you want respect then start abiding by the laws you are meant to be enforcing. Not stonewall made up laws.

If I need you police I don't give a shit what you are wearing I just want you to come and remove this hobo thats screaming at me instead of leaving it to members of the public to protect us.

Not only are there no funds to allow the police to do their jobs despite being enough to pay stonewall. You are now also prioritising paying for hats over anything else that money could be used for.

Absolutely clueless about how this appears 🙄

From this in the Eye, we should also be concerned as to what's inside their headwear:

twitter.com/mr_gillard/status/1562516574317060098?s=21&t=repCIduwfu3YTpTipFikfg

You don't default internal fit, you do default the external hat appearance.

The current helmet difference is not about protection.

Both current helmets are fucking stupid, tbh.

Thinking more about a single uniform set to default male style, could there be a safety risk to women? You can't just size down body armour for example so would it be the same for helmets? I know this example is probably wrong, I'm just making it up, but eg say one helmet design protects male heads better by dispersing force where the skull is thinnest while helmets for women need to be different to protect the most vulnerable parts of their heads with the dome in a different place or reinforced sides instead.

Interesting discussion about police 'looking good.' I, like most people no doubt, want - expect - police officers to look smart but if women and men wear identical uniforms despite a PP clarifying that wouldn't work well for both sexes, only one group will be smart and I guarantee the uniform will be default male style. So women police officers would deliberately be put at a disadvantage as far as public perception goes.

This is the Daily Mail shit-stirring.

The primary motive to bring in bump hats was budgetary. Obviously this hasn't worked out.

It might have had the side effect of "being more inclusive", but that wasn't the main point.

www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017-05-10/northamptonshire-police-replace-traditional-hats-with-baseball-cap-style-protective-headgear - new caps "significantly cheaper"

I view the police as an equally serious and vital job like the military. The purpose of their every day clothing is to be comfortable and practical and recognisable to the public. The priority is not necessarily to look good. Public services are supposedly stretched thin in recent years in terms of resources and funding. It may be more cost effective to have a standard uniform?

Now there might be ceremonial police clothing like the military that gets used on special occasions, and that tends to be different for men and women as usually there's some historical reason for why the outfit has a certain design and look, and yes it's also about looking good.

I didn't get the sense the news article was about a set of ceremonial uniforms that get used once in a blue moon, otherwise they wouldn't have switched to baseball caps in the first place. It's about their everyday uniform.

I don't know - I'm not a hat expert. Just seems awfully wasteful spending so much money going back and forth with different types of hats at a time when there isn't enough policing to tackle crime and other issues.

What looks good on women and men isn't necessarily the same either. The proportions on hats being a good example, it's not just that women have smaller heads, often they have smaller faces, and look better with a hat proportioned differently. FFS, is this really the priority issue - looking good?
For the police/fire/other services, there should be an appropriate uniform that protects and makes them easily recognisable. The uniform should not be gendered apart from fit for comfort and safety. It is not 1950.

Yes, the combat clothing is identical, right down to underpants. Which is fine, it makes some of the logistical issues simpler which has value in that setting.

My main point however was that men and women aren't going to look identical anyway, so making uniforms identical except for sizing is of limited value in terms of appearance. What looks good on women and men isn't necessarily the same either. The proportions on hats being a good example, it's not just that women have smaller heads, often they have smaller faces, and look better with a hat proportioned differently.

The only value of that kind is if you want to somehow assert that males and females will look the same or ought to look the same, which seems a little pointless. Men and women look different and that is fine. It's not like we are talking about giving the women uniforms that show their cleavage or something.

I agree, I think obviously gendered uniforms are weird (although there should be appropriate fit for both, not just a men's uniform).

"Old people complained that police officers didn't look like they used to back in their day."

Receipts?

"So the old farts who are in charge of the Police have decide that is a good use of public money to spend another £50k on hats to make the old people happy again."

These the same old farts in charge of the Police who have decided that it is a good use of public money to paint police vehicles like clown cars - to make the old people happy??

Personally, I'll not be happy until the cars look like they used to back in the old days of Policeman Plod and Z-Cars. Who do I complain to, to snap my fingers and make it happen?

Perhaps they shouldn't have spent lots of public money on an unnecessary change to hats that made them look ridiculous and were unpopular then. Lesson learned, hopefully.

Yup.

It's happening across the board. Old people complained that police officers didn't look like they used to back in their day. So the old farts who are in charge of the Police have decide that is a good use of public money to spend another £50k on hats to make the old people happy again.

The issues you've described of clothing being baggy etc sounds like a case of male clothing being given to women to wear, which is not the same as both men and women having the same style / uniform but sized properly because of the differences in sexes.
A man and a woman can wear the same type of hat - but there will be two sizes since women's heads will be smaller than men's on average.
Similarly for shirts and trousers - style can be the same, but they should be tailored to fit male and female bodies respectively.

US policemen generally don't wear baseball caps as part of their uniform. How odd that you thought they did.

I can't understand why, if there are two versions of official uniform headgear (and indeed any other element of the uniform), both aren't available to male and female officers.

Hear, hear!

In my experience male and female uniforms being identical doesn't work to make them look identical all that well. The main goal is to identify people as being part of the same group.

I was in the military for about a decade, and wore two uniforms there. Army combats, which were identical for men and women, and a dress uniform, which was not.

Because there were fairly baggy, it was possible to have the same combat uniform, but it didn't look the same, and it never looked as smart on women because typically it appeared to have a dropped shoulder, the collar would gape, and so on. This was not a practical issue and I doubt differentiating would have been useful, but the fact is that it didn't look especially identical.

The dress uniforms, which were more fitted, did come in men and women's styles, even when you didn't include the skirt. Most women could not easily fit into the men's trousers unless they were slim hipped, and the tunics and shirts would not have been easily interchangeable either. They did however make everyone look like they belonged to the same group - even when women wore a skirt or among those elements where there were different caps for men and women.

They wear them in that bastion of inclusiveness Scotland .
I've always hated them. Very flimsy looking things.

And a trans person's head doesn't miraculously increase or decrease in circumference because they identify as something else. Bodies are sexed, and having the same uniform that comes in two different sizes to fit male and female bodies is a more sensible and cost effective approach IMO, than having different uniforms for men and women. It should have the added benefit of discouraging AGP tendencies as well.

If male and female officers wear different hats (I don't understand why this is necessary?!), surely the simplest and cheapest option from the start should have been to say that any officer, male or female, could wear either type of hat. There's no reason why a female officer can't wear the type of hat used by the male officers and vice versa. Hats aren't sex-specific, unless there are sizing issues (which are sex-specific), but then just ask the supplier if they can make the same hat in a range of sizes to fit men and women's heads?

Why waste so much money switching to baseball caps and now wasting money again to ditch them!

The purpose of uniforms is so that both male and female staff are dressed the same, so why wear different hats?
Whether the decision is to go with hats that are more comfortable to wear for longer periods, or to go for hats that offer more protection - the type and design should be the same for both sexes. Just get the hats sized properly so there's ones that fit women's heads and men's heads.

“Traditional flat caps will be issued to all male officers, with female officers given the option of wearing bowler hats which will include Lancashire Constabulary insignia.”

Flat caps? That’s Yorkshire not Lancashire, surely.

I agree with a previous poster, they should go with hats which offer more protection.

I don't love the increasing casualness of police uniforms in general, I think they give the wrong feel. Police officers shouldn't look like swat teams (unless they are.)

I'm happy with different hats for men and women, I don't think that men's hats often look to big on women's heads.

And no, I don't want to see police officers wearing baseball caps. We've taken on quite enough of American culture already, thanks.