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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Edinburgh Fringe comic spat on and shunned by colleagues as a 'transphobe' for show about women

518 replies

JanieAllen · 17/08/2022 13:33

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/edinburgh-fringe-comic-spat-shunned-27762754

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19
GertrudeKerfuffle · 25/08/2022 21:28

Plus ça change @Artichokeleaves

Artichokeleaves · 25/08/2022 15:29

doesn't think women have valid opinions.

In fact this is the theme of conflict across almost every thread on this board.

Male people and male focused/prioritising supporters who don't believe women have valid opinions about anything - specifically their spaces, their sexuality, their language, their bodies, their children, and that women should just do what they're told by males for males

and females who think this belongs in the realm of togas, pyramid construction and the very early days of Keith Richards, and do not plan to co operate or serve.

At the heart of the sex/gender/TQ+ politics 'discussion' is a bloody great chunk of plain old misogyny. It's never really about the T, because it's never about the female T people. It's always about XY people and their belief in inborn superiority and entitlement over XX people.

GertrudeKerfuffle · 25/08/2022 14:55

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2022 10:51

Is this what you think is "transphobic", Dadjoke? And women are adult human females, it's just reality, it isn't a "schtick".

A quote below from Elaine Miller's article, here provided with distaste by a man who has no idea about the female experience, like so many of the men who want to put us in our place:

If you don’t recognise yourself as a “cervix haver” you are unlikely to attend your smear test. Cervix is an uncommon word describing a hidden body part so unless “woman” is used to invite women to screening those with learning disabilities, dyslexia, English as a second language or lower education attainment are excluded. Some of them might then die of cervical cancer. I don’t think that is ok.

A recent international paper examined cases where gendered language caused harm or confusion, and it makes for grim reading. It is hard to understand why adding barriers to healthcare for those already marginalised is championed as inclusion.

I was so cross about all this that my birth injury became my muse. My episiotomy scar is a zig zag shape and I read somewhere that lightning bolt scars can be powerful…so, if need be, I will gather crowd of women, march to Holyrood and whip out our scarred pudendas and bellies, prolapses and piles, mastitis infested breasts and our fierce capacity to love and demonstrate that we earned the word “mother” and we won’t give it up without debate.

“Witch” is a word which once had so much power it made 4000 women disappear. Conversely, the least powerful word at any time, in any language, is a woman’s “no”.
If women’s consistent, insistent and persistent “no” upsets you, I gently suggest that you focus your efforts on improving the behaviour of males so that women require fewer protections rather than bullying women and calling it activism.

Wise words, Elaine. Thank you.

Yes, this.

The use of the word 'schtick' is telling. Dadjoke doesn't think women have valid opinions.

WanOvaryKenobi · 25/08/2022 13:15

Ricky Gervais is liking Tweets that mention the story.

twitter.com/Scottish_Fella/status/1562755904164233218

Shall we ask him what he thinks?

GertrudeKerfuffle · 25/08/2022 12:59

Well done for persisting @WanOvaryKenobi

I do wonder if the management at the Gilded Balloon are shitting themselves at the idea of trying to fire that employee. No doubt it would bring down a whole load of grief for them from TRAs and a possible employment tribunal - which you would think would be without merit, but it would cause them a lot of headaches, not to mention threats and so on.

I don't think it was a good idea for anyone to be stickering Jen Ives's posters. It seems rather a personal attack rather than an ideological stance in that context and it's better to rise above, in my opinion. Let her comedy routine speak for itself. Let her dig her own hole deeper.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 25/08/2022 12:27

Spitting at someone is "social justice" and not laughing at a comedian is a "transphobic hate crime". Riiiight

Who knew that the male adage that women have no sense of humour would eventually see calls to criminalise us for this offence.

It's certainly a Catch 22 take on, "Women are afraid men will kill them. Men are afraid women will laugh at them". Either way lies the possibility of assault and/or criminalisation.

viques · 25/08/2022 11:57

FunnyTalks · 25/08/2022 10:39

Spitting at someone is "social justice" and not laughing at a comedian is a "transphobic hate crime". Riiiight

Who knew that folding your arms and not laughing was such a powerful weapon.

As a tactic it is going to revolutionise:

international relationships -“ The Ukrainian troops have put down their weapons and folded their arms, it appears the Russian troops are confused and embarassed by this defiantly aggressive move. And yes, it appears that the order has been given, the Russian tanks are reversing and leaving” .

political debate - “ In response to the virulent opposition attack on the Chancellors proposal to further cut income tax for the wealthiest 5% of the country the government front row folded their arms and curled their lips”

family rows - “ Not taking out the recycling and emptying the dishwasher is not funny Araminta, and as you can see by our body language both your father and I are deeply disappointed in your failure to comply with our very reasonable expectations.”

Sazzasez · 25/08/2022 11:02

People caping for Ives for “diversity” should note there are quite a lot of trans performers at the Fringe this year, and some of them seem to be quite funny.

Jordan Gray seems quite amusing & hasn’t needed to get his mates to buy tickets for others.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2022 10:51

Is this what you think is "transphobic", Dadjoke? And women are adult human females, it's just reality, it isn't a "schtick".

A quote below from Elaine Miller's article, here provided with distaste by a man who has no idea about the female experience, like so many of the men who want to put us in our place:

If you don’t recognise yourself as a “cervix haver” you are unlikely to attend your smear test. Cervix is an uncommon word describing a hidden body part so unless “woman” is used to invite women to screening those with learning disabilities, dyslexia, English as a second language or lower education attainment are excluded. Some of them might then die of cervical cancer. I don’t think that is ok.

A recent international paper examined cases where gendered language caused harm or confusion, and it makes for grim reading. It is hard to understand why adding barriers to healthcare for those already marginalised is championed as inclusion.

I was so cross about all this that my birth injury became my muse. My episiotomy scar is a zig zag shape and I read somewhere that lightning bolt scars can be powerful…so, if need be, I will gather crowd of women, march to Holyrood and whip out our scarred pudendas and bellies, prolapses and piles, mastitis infested breasts and our fierce capacity to love and demonstrate that we earned the word “mother” and we won’t give it up without debate.

“Witch” is a word which once had so much power it made 4000 women disappear. Conversely, the least powerful word at any time, in any language, is a woman’s “no”.
If women’s consistent, insistent and persistent “no” upsets you, I gently suggest that you focus your efforts on improving the behaviour of males so that women require fewer protections rather than bullying women and calling it activism.

Wise words, Elaine. Thank you.

IcakethereforeIam · 25/08/2022 10:47

@ScreamingMeMe I'd forgotten that photo, ick!

Jen should have attended some of the LGBA talks and stayed away from their cake.

FunnyTalks · 25/08/2022 10:39

Spitting at someone is "social justice" and not laughing at a comedian is a "transphobic hate crime". Riiiight

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2022 10:31

Half the audience laughed and half didn’t laugh, and all of them were arrested for it.

Grin
LaughingPriest · 25/08/2022 09:33

Is "hate crime row" the new term for "front row"? (That's how I was reading "row" Grin )

Helleofabore · 25/08/2022 09:21

ScreamingMeMe · 25/08/2022 09:04

Edinburgh Fringe 'hate crime' row as show from trans comic accused of 'bombing'

After audience members failed to laugh during a show called Peak Trans, supporters claimed it had become the victim of a 'hate crime'

www.google.com/amp/s/www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-fringe-hate-crime-row-27824825.amp

Ouch.

It will be hard to hide from that article.

Artichokeleaves · 25/08/2022 09:21

PeriodBro · 25/08/2022 09:14

I never would have imagined that there would be a culture war where the battlelines were supposedly attending comedy shows and not laughing.

No wonder satire is dead.

I'm not willing to agree it's a 'war' of any sort. You cannot have even a basic reasonable discussion with unarmed opponents. This is just sort of a lot of people standing with their mouths open watching an unholy mess spilling everywhere.

I'm afraid my drawn conclusion at this point is to never buy tickets for a stage show by a TQ+ performer, because if you enter the room with them and become part of their drama who knows what they'll perceive and accuse you of. Which will then be released to the press and probably the police.

#lifeisjusttooshortforallthis

ScreamingMeMe · 25/08/2022 09:17

Just another porn-soaked...person.

Edinburgh Fringe comic spat on and shunned by colleagues as a 'transphobe' for show about women
PeriodBro · 25/08/2022 09:14

I never would have imagined that there would be a culture war where the battlelines were supposedly attending comedy shows and not laughing.

No wonder satire is dead.

Sazzasez · 25/08/2022 09:14

Did you hear the one about the transphobic Fringe audience?

The comedienne said she was a lesbian with a pen!s.

Half the audience laughed and half didn’t laugh, and all of them were arrested for it.

ScreamingMeMe · 25/08/2022 09:04

Edinburgh Fringe 'hate crime' row as show from trans comic accused of 'bombing'

After audience members failed to laugh during a show called Peak Trans, supporters claimed it had become the victim of a 'hate crime'

www.google.com/amp/s/www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-fringe-hate-crime-row-27824825.amp

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 25/08/2022 09:01

ImperioMarch · 25/08/2022 07:39

@TheLassWiADelicateAir it was more than just being on his own.

So what? From your post all he did was sit there tried not to laugh and bolted like a whippet (presumably to report back) the second it was over.

So what? From the clips posted I would have no difficulty not laughing at Miller either. It's been said repeatedly in relation to Ives that not laughing isn't a crime.

He came to see it- there's plenty of criticism on here about making a judgement about the show without seeing the show. He did nothing other than be there. He didn't inconvenience you or Miller. He didn't interrupt or heckle.

As for "Bolting like a whippet" - sorry but get a grip. What was he supposed to do? Stick around and fawn over Miller?

WanOvaryKenobi · 25/08/2022 08:50

Thank you for all of your support 💗

Here is the full article again.

archive.ph/u89u2

334bu · 25/08/2022 08:15

Thanks Dadjoke for that article by Elaine Miller, it was a well written piece. However, where was the transphobia? Could you elaborate ?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2022 08:14

Great Times article, @WanOvaryKenobi!

IcakethereforeIam · 25/08/2022 08:04

@WanOvaryKenobi ooh, published in the Times!

Well done, and thanks for the links. 'Buy one that works'!, unless he meant prostitution or surrogacy, I very much don't think so. What a creep.

Are they allowing comments?