Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Edinburgh Fringe comic spat on and shunned by colleagues as a 'transphobe' for show about women

518 replies

JanieAllen · 17/08/2022 13:33

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/edinburgh-fringe-comic-spat-shunned-27762754

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Datun · 28/08/2022 15:32

Yes, it's almost like talking of pelvic floor issues and menopause is forbidden, precisely because it can't be objectified. What's the point of it?

Because it's not something that can be repurposed, and appears, horrifyingly, to be more exclusively female even than tits, its got to go in the shredder.

Artichokeleaves · 28/08/2022 15:21

Yup, that's how it feels to me too.

It's in part the terra nullis thing: a misogynist believes that anything not directly useful to a male is blank territory, meaningless, pointless, just waiting for some male to come along and put it to a good use.

And it is in the part the desire to just erase female women. 'Identify as women' has never reflected a desire to be with and part of women. But to take the whole concept of women, replace it with the male improved version, and discard the females as.... well. Some kind of subhuman thing with no words of their own. See dictionary entry for homosexual females.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/08/2022 15:14

I think you've explained it very well, Datun

YY.

BlueBrush · 28/08/2022 15:10

*It's a difficult thing for me to explain, but it's almost like they take the bits that can be used, but we still don't get to have the rest. It has to be erased, even though they have no need of it, don't rate it, and can't understand it.

it just feels like women's entire existence is dissected, to be utilised, and then the rest discarded as of no use whatsoever.*

I think you've explained it very well, Datun

Datun · 28/08/2022 15:03

Thanks Gasp0de.

its also that i'm just stuck a fresh about how female biology gets appropriated - always via the male gaze. The bits the that are copied, like breasts.

And the bits that can't be copied and aren't sexualised in porn, like pelvic floor issues, menopause, and things like pcos and endometriosis, are still deemed entirely unacceptable for women to talk about.

It's a difficult thing for me to explain, but it's almost like they take the bits that can be used, but we still don't get to have the rest. It has to be erased, even though they have no need of it, don't rate it, and can't understand it.

it just feels like women's entire existence is dissected, to be utilised, and then the rest discarded as of no use whatsoever.

MoltenLasagne · 28/08/2022 15:01

Sazzasez · 25/08/2022 09:14

Did you hear the one about the transphobic Fringe audience?

The comedienne said she was a lesbian with a pen!s.

Half the audience laughed and half didn’t laugh, and all of them were arrested for it.

Well I laughed 😅

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/08/2022 14:30

Datun · 26/08/2022 09:13

I know this nonsense has already been addressed, but also, it's simply not true. Of course the Issue is about vulvas and vaginas.

Transactivists can't actually eliminate vulvas and vaginas, but they absolutely try and eliminate the fact that they only belong to women.

So when a woman who is not only gloriously pro-women, but is uniquely placed to talk about female anatomy, dares to go public, she has to be stopped.

Because Elaine isn't just talking about female biology. She is unequivocally and determinedly connecting it to the only people who have it, women.

All the talk of pelvic floor exercises, menopause symptoms, both familiar and taboo, would be like a foreign language to most men. Something that is and always will be beyond their experience. Because, of course, it is not at all the sort of slant on female anatomy that has them glued to the screen on porn hub

It highlights the fact that women's biology is simply not something that can be detached from women, in order that the word woman can mean something else.

And it must really rankle that she's bloody funny too. All this esoteric stuff about women's unique biology, that's also making them laugh out loud?

Unforgivable.

Nailed it as usual, @Datun!

shemen · 28/08/2022 13:30

That was my friend with the laugh!

TanteRose · 28/08/2022 13:16

@MNHQ I think Elaine would be a good candidate for a Mumsnet Q&A

Needmoresleep · 28/08/2022 13:12

NonnyMouse1337 · 28/08/2022 07:37

How red did his face get? Grin

I'm so pleased that her shows have been selling out in the latter part of the Fringe.

Very red, though he seemed to enjoy it. Elaine is a natural comedienne. Really fun. Someone in the audience had an amazing laugh, so much so that at one point I thought Elaine was going to corpse.

A really good show. Can we have a MN feminist comedy festival. Or one or two select standups attached to Filia?

shemen · 28/08/2022 08:40

Saw Elaine's show last night. She was amazing. Intelligent, passionate, hilarious. I learned things. Those who've been will get my name change. Thanks Elaine if you are reading and I hope you liked my spontaneous gift! I wanted to form a club with the women sitting around me. We had such a laugh together Grin

NonnyMouse1337 · 28/08/2022 07:37

Needmoresleep · 27/08/2022 18:41

Tickets for the show in 20 minutes. DH let me pick what we are watching and I have not explained why this. Have seen 3 very good shows so far today so he is relaxed. So if anyone sees a woman in a red top, and a man with an equally red face, do say hello.

(It was sold out yesterday.)

How red did his face get? Grin

I'm so pleased that her shows have been selling out in the latter part of the Fringe.

TheClogLady · 28/08/2022 01:49

Perhaps the win will translate into a tour?

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 28/08/2022 01:42

TheClogLady · 28/08/2022 01:27

Another Nirvana fan here. I’ll check that out. Thanks!

Today is its last day.

TheClogLady · 28/08/2022 01:27

Another Nirvana fan here. I’ll check that out. Thanks!

ScreamingMeMe · 27/08/2022 23:09

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 27/08/2022 22:49

It's sort of irrelevant mentioning it but Cassie Workman, whose show Aberdeen is getting 5 star reviews and has won a Scotsman Fringe First Award for new drama, is a trans woman.

That's all completely 100% irrelevant to her show, which is about Kurt Cobain, but it's mentioned on her Facebook page. Workman is an extremely talented, hard working and engaging performer and writer.

That sounds interesting. I was a big Nirvana fan back in the day.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 27/08/2022 22:49

It's sort of irrelevant mentioning it but Cassie Workman, whose show Aberdeen is getting 5 star reviews and has won a Scotsman Fringe First Award for new drama, is a trans woman.

That's all completely 100% irrelevant to her show, which is about Kurt Cobain, but it's mentioned on her Facebook page. Workman is an extremely talented, hard working and engaging performer and writer.

Wellies54 · 27/08/2022 20:57

For someone who is so sensitive, Jen Ives is surprisingly rude about their own father and a certain, late war veteran who raised a lot of money for the nhs.

IcakethereforeIam · 27/08/2022 20:10

Yup, Ives, from what I've seen, just ain't funny.

BellaAmorosa · 27/08/2022 19:29

Sazzasez · 26/08/2022 14:58

I think some of the difference at least is that Gray has worked at it. Better, more polished material. Just compare the titles, even! And much better delivery.

The first thing on that godawful clip of Ives is them taking the mic & saying “how are ya” & smiling in a somewhat engaging way, introducing themselves... And then, for no comic payoff, barking “No!” at the audience.

I’m not even sure it was intentional - Ives cackled but nobody else did. Not a good start. it reminded me of the sort of thing my 8 year-old brother used to do on tape. (Though to be fair he could belch at will & often did so with good comic timing).

With Ives’ fans including a TV producer who said he’ll commission Ives just to own the Terves & the fabulist @DadJoke gets his tale from who deleted his - ahem - contradictory versions of what happened while saying he stands every word offering to buy people tickets, it’s not clear Ives is going to bother to put the work in. Why would you?

i was just watching Paul Merton talking about his first piece (the policeman on acid) and how he worked on it for months & got about 3 1/2 minutes of material. But it was brilliant, went over marvellously, he got invited back - and had to do it again because that was all the material he had.

That’s work. Ives is just a grifter.

@IcakethereforeIam
Pretty much what I was going to say after watching Ives. They need to go to a stand-up comedy class to start with, be humble enough to learn from professionals and then put the work in to get better at writing and performing jokes. Talent levels vary but nobody can get away with coasting along. Lazy. That was my overriding impression of Peak Trans from the clip.

2Rebecca · 27/08/2022 18:50

Delighted it was sold out yest. Have fun. I loved it and took a friend who is sympathetic but hasn't been to any meetings etc. she thought Elaine was great. Get one of the origami fanny fortune tellers if there are any left

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2022 18:44

Enjoy!

Needmoresleep · 27/08/2022 18:41

Tickets for the show in 20 minutes. DH let me pick what we are watching and I have not explained why this. Have seen 3 very good shows so far today so he is relaxed. So if anyone sees a woman in a red top, and a man with an equally red face, do say hello.

(It was sold out yesterday.)

RhannionKPSS · 27/08/2022 16:04

Just a reminder that Viva your Vulva has only two more shows to go at the Edinburgh Fringe this year.

Sazzasez · 26/08/2022 14:58

IcakethereforeIam · 26/08/2022 13:46

Jordan seems quite charismatic, Jen Ives...not so much.

I think some of the difference at least is that Gray has worked at it. Better, more polished material. Just compare the titles, even! And much better delivery.

The first thing on that godawful clip of Ives is them taking the mic & saying “how are ya” & smiling in a somewhat engaging way, introducing themselves... And then, for no comic payoff, barking “No!” at the audience.

I’m not even sure it was intentional - Ives cackled but nobody else did. Not a good start. it reminded me of the sort of thing my 8 year-old brother used to do on tape. (Though to be fair he could belch at will & often did so with good comic timing).

With Ives’ fans including a TV producer who said he’ll commission Ives just to own the Terves & the fabulist @DadJoke gets his tale from who deleted his - ahem - contradictory versions of what happened while saying he stands every word offering to buy people tickets, it’s not clear Ives is going to bother to put the work in. Why would you?

i was just watching Paul Merton talking about his first piece (the policeman on acid) and how he worked on it for months & got about 3 1/2 minutes of material. But it was brilliant, went over marvellously, he got invited back - and had to do it again because that was all the material he had.

That’s work. Ives is just a grifter.