Complaints against Baroness Nicholson being organised

Children should where possible have a relationship with their mother and father, why do you think that it homophobic?

I don't agree with the comment about lesbian families, but I have no idea about the context of that not direct quote.

I didn't read the tweet as saying that trans people are abberations (never mind abhorrent) I read it as, in her opinion, the neo vaginas created through this surgery are physical abberations.

Questioning the idea of equal marriage at the time was not a sign of homophobia. Thinking so is just not understanding the arguments of the time.

These two comments are nothing to do with marriage, just common or garden homophobia.

This is an area where people who feel they are speaking for lgb rights made a real tactical error. By expanding the sense of homophobia in this way they created a kind of "no debate" atmosphere whoch said, if you do not get on board with a very specific set of activist beliefs, we will accuse you of bigotry.

That was not developed wholesale by TRAs, they were able to adopt it and have it accepted because it was already being tacitly accepted in other areas. Similarly debate over things like affirmative action, what counts as blackface, and other controversies where reasonable people might have different perspectives in civil rights politics.

It's really highlighted for many the importance of free speech and open political discussion, now that they are themselves being accused of bigotry and NoDebate is being pushed. But I don't think it's a good idea to pretend it all started with gender ideology, it didn't. It was appearing among progressives well before that.

Some people here are having problems understanding the difference between reconstruction surgery and surgery to construct breasts in men or cosmetically increase the size of breasts for no medical reason on women.

I don't know what is natural or usual about inverting a penis, so I'm not sure why saying aberration is so controversial for some.

Questioning the idea of equal marriage at the time was not a sign of homophobia. Thinking so is just not understanding the arguments of the time.

Women willing and able to speak out and who are listened to are always going to be targets in a way that men are not.

Personally, I'd be all for banningTwitter in its entirety.

I'd miss Larry the Cat but that's about it.

I with my B cup could quite easily apply for surgery for enlargement tomorrow (,I don't want to, but I could)) should I be denied it then as according to this thread I need to learn to be happy with what I've got?

So breast enlargements, not reconstruction surgeries, but breast enlargements are available on the NHS?

This would be something you would have to pay for privately, under all scenarios barring reconstructive ones.

It's also possible to make a robust argument that where health services are under severe distress, having surgeons, who are often trained in part through public funding, spending their time on cosmetic issues is a really poor way to run things. And that yes, cosmetic surgeries, and maybe even some cases of reconstructive surgery, should be put aside where real health concerns are not a factor.

Additionally, if you have ever done any reading in medical ethics you will know that the ethics of purely cosmetic procedures being done by doctors is an area of significant discussion and disagreement. Many ethicists, and indeed doctors themselves, to not think cosmetic procedures are within the proper remit of the doctors role.

I don't understand why you would think that learning to be content with your body as it is would be something you have a right to avoid, especially on the public purse. No one is obligated to help you get the nose you want.

Just a reminder that of the 22 doctors who quit the Tavistock in a single year over their concerns about gender ideology, every single one voiced concerns about homophobic parents who wanted to 'trans the gay away'.

The T definitely doesn't belong with the LGB and the sooner people wake up to this the better for all LGB people.

Anyone comparing surgery to help a woman to not have lopsided breasts after a major illness with creating a patchwork "vagina" because someone believes they were born in the wrong body needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. The latter is more comparable to a woman with a D cup expecting the NHS to give her breasts like Katy Price.

I read the screen grab of her tweet and it made me uncomfortable.

To be honest, I try to avoid the trans argument bit because I'm in this for women's rights and what I know about trans health care could be written on a stamp. Yes I know that trans rights and women's right come into conflict (I'm interested in that bit). The rest, not so much. It's not my business.

FWIW I think it would help if it were clear what is being treated. Is it a physical or mental health issue? Who needs treatment for dysphoria? Who needs other support? What treatments are available and what works? In other words proper evidence. Without this i struggle with support.

I wouldn't support any medical treatment on the NHS unless the evidence base was clear and the cost benefit showed it is viable.

Re: breast cancer mastectomy / reconstruction. Its often done at the same time now. If it couldn't be, most women would choose, as they used to, to have life saving treatment element (surgery), so that they can get on with the rest of their treatment (chemo, radio).

Strangely hearache deflects and distracts when Nancy Kelley’s or Cathryn McGahey’s comments are mentioned and I don’t recall them ever acknowledging these statements once across numerous threads now.

Does anybody remember when homophobia was about hatred or fear of gay people, rather than thinking kids benefit from having both a mum and dad?

You can't force everyone to love you, or clap gor you, whoever you are, and however you live. I'm definitely not taking lessons on homophobia from the side of transing away the gay in little kids though.

"Hearach15 · Today 00:26

All homophobes are also transphobes. Hence why the LGB and the T go together.

Show quote history

Then please have a word with the rancid homophobes in your movement who smear lesbians as 'sexual racists' and compare lesbians refusing cock to apartheid."

👆!!!!!!!

A friend with body dysmorphia had plastic surgery paid for by the NHS after 15 years of failed therapy and very severe depression. Not gender related, different body part. It was a last resort and helped her more than anything else did. So I am sympathetic to people with gender dysphoria so severe that they need plastic surgery and would see that as a cognitive/ mental health treatment of last resort. It is in a completely different category to me than Yaniv, wiSpa willy person etc and the various trans women in sport who seem to be taking the definition of women and just playing with it like a cat with a mouse, for very different motivations.

You could apply but the chances are you'd be turned down as it's purely cosmetic.
Why should boob jobs be done on the NHS (if it's not reconstruction, which is a valid medical issue), just because you fancy a better cleavage?
Cosmetic procedures which do not actually fix a problem should have never been available on the NHS.
Inverting a penis to resemble a vagina and make a hole where there shouldn't be one is barbaric.

Reassignment surgery should absolutely not be available on the NHS.
We're told time and again that being trans is not an illness, so why should they be getting cosmetic surgery for free?
You don't have to have dysphoria to be trans, so what is being treated?
Plus I believe that the NHS is eventually going to be sued into the ground, when people realise how many complications and failures are within this area.
I think people are not being told the truth about what's done to them and expect way more function than they get.

This might be out of date info now, but a while ago I read that they would give transwomen laser hair removal for their beard, but not do the same for women with PCOS.
How is that fair ?

It was ignored on the Ben Cooper thread earlier today by some posters as well….

When the same lens is applied to Stonewall spokespeople such as Nancy Kelley, crickets are heard all round, and distractive measures deployed.

It is a common tactic, isn’t it?

I see nobody’s responded to this yet. Nancy Kelley of Stonewall has compared lesbians to sexual racists. Cathryn McGahey QC, a member of the BarCouncil Ethics Committee, equated the cotton ceiling with apartheid during Allison Bailey’s tribunal.

Is that all perfectly acceptable? Because to me it sounds blatantly homophobic.

Some posters really have little knowledge about how good and robust laws are made.

They take a very superficial view of the vote and treat it like a reliable 100% indicator of an MPs beliefs.

Often forgetting in some votes, MPs might be voting as per the party policy with pressure of the Whip. Others vote against to have the law further discussed and modified.

Using an MP’s voting history out of context, while ignoring that at the time plenty of dissenting voices were being publicly heard from within the LGB community about the word ‘marriage’ and other issues with the bill as well, is a very common activist tactic.

Touché!

I also wonder how honest the surgeons are. These are procédures with staggering ratés of both failure and complications.

Breast reductions and enlargements on the NHS are fairly rare, almost always done for spinal health and post-oncology reconstruction, respectively, and are never done because a woman who develops a B cup decides one day she was born into the wrong body and should have been an F.
Where are you getting this from though? I with my B cup could quite easily apply for surgery for enlargement tomorrow (,I don't want to, but I could))
should I be denied it then as according to this thread I need to learn to be happy with what I've got?

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Breast reductions and enlargements on the NHS are fairly rare, almost always done for spinal health and post-oncology reconstruction, respectively, and are never done because a woman who develops a B cup decides one day she was born into the wrong body and should have been an F.