Complaints against Baroness Nicholson being organised

Not sure where you get that the NHS being on its knees, and should only be used for medical issues, is the same as telling people they must be happy with what they've got. If they're not happy, they can do what all women do who want a breast enlargement, and pay for it.

NHS breast enlargement is either for women who have had mastectomy or who have a bilateral absence of breast tissue. Not a B cup.
Ok, point taken, but still going by the logic on here, it's still purely cosmetic, you don't need it, you should learn to be happy with what you've got.

NHS breast enlargement is either for women who have had mastectomy or who have a bilateral absence of breast tissue. Not a B cup.

Looks like 'taring' to me. This is definately not just disagreeing with her views.

As a nurse, if someone needs wound care post surgery I would do it, wherever their wound was.

I wonder if the Baroness was being euphemistic there. I have heard of nurses being expected to help with the dilation process, which is significantly different from wound care and I really, really don't think it should be expected of nurses.

But she may simply have been objecting to any NHS staff time being devoted to this surgery and its aftercare on the obvious grounds (costs huge, risk of harming the patient high, benefits unclear at best.)

What astounds me is that decision makers and policy makers seem to be looking to twitter for guidance and advice!!

Yes, I agree. However, it does start to dawn on one what one is actually looking at after a while. And Emma Nicholson is a decision maker, and mixes in those circles. Her credibility will be right up there.

churned out by a 15 year old boy.
🤣 First time I've ever been mistaken for a 15 year old boy lol

Surely it is worse to have someone who has not changed their minds on anything over thirty years. Society and societal attitudes have changed massively over that period.

An intelligent human being who is willing to listen and think and if appropriate revise their opinions, seems to me to be far better than someone whose opinions are stuck in the 1990s and who won't change.

Stonewall surely is on a mission to get the majority of us to accept men who identify as women as women. Their early polls suggested very few bought the concept of Self-ID. Presumably they hope their arguments will encourage individuals to think again and to change their minds...

Oh0oh. I forgot. #no debate, "education" and if necessary "cancellation".

Thank you Emma for standing up to this.

I mean sometimes I think that there are dozens of highly skilled and intelligent women on here spending their time patiently and carefully rebutting nonsense churned out by a 15 year old boy.

Uncanny innit.

Where are you getting this from though? I with my B cup could quite easily apply for surgery for enlargement tomorrow (,I don't want to, but I could))
should I be denied it then

Cannot get over this, what planet are they posting from? Thinking that cosmetic breast enlargement is available on the NHS (for someone with a "B cup" at that) and also thinking that a board full of feminists would think it should be available on the NHS. I mean sometimes I think that there are dozens of highly skilled and intelligent women on here spending their time patiently and carefully rebutting nonsense churned out by a 15 year old boy.

Does anyone here know to whom to write in order to be most effective in voicing support for her?

I was following exactly what happened on twitter. For me, there are two elements to this debate, firstly the ideology itself which largely does not stand up to scrutiny, and secondly what I like to call the rules of engagement, which seem very stacked in the TRAs favour and has the express function of subduing that scrutiny.

'you support a bigoted tory who voted against gay marriage and was banned from Twitter for hate speech' will become their new battle cry and it will be the answer to everything, from women's sports to rape crisis centres to puberty blockers.

Meanwhile, mention any of the activities of the first openly transgender MP, and suddenly you can't tar everyone with the same brush etc.

You would hope that the twitter spat is nothing, it means so little, but on twitter these tactics really work. Then blocking, reporting, and the mechanisms by which you can be suspended for 12 hours are again, really loaded against anyone arguing for women's rights.

What astounds me is that decision makers and policy makers seem to be looking to twitter for guidance and advice!! But there you go..... Twitter's stranglehold on the rules of engagement seem to be loosening for now and adult debate and disclosure can commence!!

One day, when this is all over, it will make a fascinating subject for a thesis or PHD....

Misunderstanding aberration and abhorrent, confusing degrading with the degregation of a concept, and now trying to use the term homophobia, when they have no idea what it means, as they can't define homosexual. And not realising that most people totally agree that the NHS should not be spending taxpayers money or boob jobs (they aren't).

And apparently quite fondly thinking that nobody realises it's all just to shut up a powerful, outspoken woman.

Where did I say lesbian mothers aren't normal or natural?

@ZuttZeVootEeeVo

That's what Baroness Nicolson says in those clips, I don't know why the poster attributed it to you.

So, only paid subscriber access to those.

Do you have the entire article or just these very clipped sections?

1994. So nearly 30 years ago, not 20.

In any event, we're talking about a concerted campaign to get the baroness banned from Twitter.

I know this is what's been happening because I've seen TRAs crowing about it. They got a black lesbian banned last week too.

This is nothing to do with homophobia, this is only about silencing women's voices. And no, this kind of surgery shouldn't be on the NHS. It has very poor outcomes in the majority of cases.

Thank you.

Ok. ToGany

Let us know then if the NHS breast enlargement application is successful. We are all now very interested to see what your GP says.

I totally agree, having two lesbian mothers is neither normal nor natural, we could have nipped this nonsense in the bud back then and we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now

Where did I say lesbian mothers aren't normal or natural?

Do you have a reference for that image so that we can see the dates and the publication please?

Clipping 1: The Observer (London, Greater London, England), 03 Jul 1994

Clipping 2: The Guardian (London, Greater London, England), 30 Jun 1994

Where are you getting this from though? I with my B cup could quite easily apply for surgery for enlargement tomorrow (,I don't want to, but I could)) should I be denied it then as according to this thread I need to learn to be happy with what I've got?

Yes, of course you should be denied. I can't believe that's even a question! Fancying having bigger boobs is not something the NHS should be funding. Preferring bigger boobs isnot a medical problem.

Do you have a reference for that image so that we can see the dates and the publication please?

I think it is very important to see the context of those quotes. There could well have been something else she was referring to in the sentence about sexual behaviour.

Plus, it may be that she has changed her mind too, isn't that the whole aim of 'educating' ourselves. So, a quote from how many decades ago can now still be held to be current thinking....

Gosh.... I cannot wait for all those posts from activists who have posted unquestioning support for affirming only treatment and a whole slew of other posts on social media to be held against them in the coming decades.

Not one person will be pure enough.

Either way, please supply a reference for those images so we can look them up.

I didn't read the tweet as saying that trans people are abberations (never mind abhorrent) I read it as, in her opinion, the neo vaginas created through this surgery are physical abberations.

When people are determined to misinterpret what the Baroness has said, they are going to use sleight of hand twists to justify their misinterpretation.

Yes. She was blunt and direct that penises and intestinal tracts or whatever other body part is used to replicate a vagina in a male is 'fake' - and they are. They are replicas that have little use outside sexual activity or making someone feel like their interpretation of what a female feels like.

And without constant maintainance they are 'unsustainable'.

They are 'aberrations of the human body' in very blunt terms. If you want language dressed up to be polite, then you will feel uncomfortable about how she has said it.

Strip away the lack of dressed up and acceptable language, is she factually incorrect?

Some posters are so desperate and disingenuous that they are pretending reconstructive breast surgery is the same as cosmetic breast enlargement. I’m cringing for them.