Jerry Sadowitz

I'm no fan of Davidson but he deserves to be back on stage if there is a demand for him and I'll defend his right to be racist and misogynistic even if I think it's in bad taste - cancel culture has gone too far.

That's a slightly different issue:

1. Should venues have the right to refuse to host overt racists like Davison and RCB? Yes, they should.

1. Should venues refuse to host edgy comics who subvert racism bit in an offensive way? Well yes, sometimes, if it's not appropriate to their context.....

....but cancelling JS at the very last minute, when they knew exactly what his act was like and then vaguely implying he makes people unsafe is not on.

.

Then there is an entire generation that confused "health and safety" with "political correctness"

That's only half a joke. They key takeaway is that it's always somebody elses fault. Which rather neatly returns to my point that "free speech" doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Say what you want. Say it where you want. But don't then act all surprised if turns out that your "hilarious" accent that never fails to get a laugh with the lads gets you into trouble when you try it at a works do (or example).

We really are in danger of recreating the Spanish Inquisition.

Not sure I can. My memory is that he just wasn't selling and blamed "Political Correctness" as if his failure to adapt with the changes was somehow societies fault.

'PC gone mad' was the 'woke nonsense' of it's day.

I've reported you to MNHQ for being reasonable and not joining in with the (and I use this word advisedly) hysteria. You are ruining this thread and peoples enjoyment of it.

Does that need a smiley ? Of course it fucking does 😕

I think I can remember JD experiencing cancellation

Not sure I can. My memory is that he just wasn't selling and blamed "Political Correctness" as if his failure to adapt with the changes was somehow societies fault.

I am becoming increasingly perplexed at how I made it to my age without having been mortally offended by something. Why, it's almost like being bought up to avoid what I don't think I'd like and not sticking my nose into other peoples tastes was some sort of protection. It's only now, in my dotage I realise how terribly wrong I've been doing it.

Yes there was definitely something at the time, I'm no fan of Davidson but he deserves to be back on stage if there is a demand for him and I'll defend his right to be racist and misogynistic even if I think it's in bad taste - cancel culture has gone too far.

I think I can remember JD experiencing cancellation. I can recollect feeling pleased when he ran into difficulties with venues. There was definitely controversy which wouldn't have happened if he had just become lost to obscurity.

Tastes did change, but with anti-cancel culture on the rise and the way that people have stepped up to defend JS for similar topics that he himself used to joke about he's grabbing the opportunity to allign himself with JS.

1. "...stories and language that were once accepted on stage, whether performed in character or not, need to be challenged."

Is this because the P word was used in character? Or perhaps JS's comedy persona is a character itself? But it gets to me. Yes everything can be 'challenged' but how can comedy or theatre explore difficult subjects if characters are held to the same standards as people in everyday life or speaking on stage as oneself? The comedian's persona or characters are like a mask and allows him/her to be the jester, saying things that are true but no one dares say. It could well ve that the way JS did it was unacceptable but without the detail this risks the whole thing. And the thing is precious.

6 There is a line that we will not cross at the Pleasance, and it was our view that this line was crossed on this occasion.
So embarrassing without the how and what.

1. They have staged him numerous times. They dont say 'but this time he did this thing which goes too far'. Instead they allude to societal change which now casts his act as beyond the pale. "In a changing world, stories and language that were once accepted on stage ..."

These statements are really muddled. The fact is they have moved their own boundary and left him on the wrong side of it. They want to see themselves as 'pushing boundaries' but actually by doing this they are reeling the boundaries in.

My guess is they have responded to the new social mores of their young staff and the tension between that and the venue's previous free expression and boundary pushing values has resulted in a weird vague statement which tries to back fill the justification.

Cancelled ? Or just didn't sell many tickets because tastes change ?

This is a great point. It currently feels quite a radical attitude though (especially on the left). The idea that minorities (and also women) need to be protected from challenging opinions / jokes / situations in relation to their minority characteristic has become predominant especially in liberal / left circles.

There are a number of things which i find alarming in the Pleasance full statement. It gives me an uneasy feeling about how things have shifted and i think more comedians should be worried about this and say so. The Pleasance are making a bad mistake here. I will pick out a few things:

1. In general the lack of detail & instead using catch-all phrases. Speech codes, rules and lines are one thing. But when there's no detail no one can use this to judge how to stay within the line. Sensitivity about language plus vegueness about is bad for the arts. The chilling effect will be much broader than this one case.

Everything else has to be read alongside the lack of clarity.

2. It doesn't match other witness accounts - js said no one walked out, the sun's witness didn't say there were wàlk outs, others on twitter didn't see any, and no one has come forward.

3. "felt uncomfortable and unsafe to remain in the venue." Taken alongside the lack of detail this terrifies me. No comedy venue should be worrying about audience feeling 'unconfortable'. As for 'unsafe', it is possdible to be unsafe at a gig. There are examples in this thread where i would have felt unsafe, where it was directed at one person. If similar scenarios were what caused the cancellation here the Pleasance should say so. But there's no suggestion that anything was directed at an individual. It is more likely that 'unsafe' is being used in its modern sense - eg safe (but not enjoyable).

4. The previous statement talked about the opinions not aligning with pleasance's values. They've dropped that here for 'We will not associate with content which attacks people’s dignity...'
   So now I am free to believe that the Pleasance does associate itself with every opinion, and shares the values of every character, who is presented on its stages.
   This is a mistake. Especially when it's likely that staff have pushed for this. The next time some staff dont like an act, how will managers defend it? They will either have to say it matches their values or ditch it. A longer term approach would be to say we don't expect acts to align with our values vand we don't expect to want to be associated with every routine performed.

Cont...

There's a good video just been put up on GB News with Dan Wootton and Jim Davidson where he talks about being cancelled as a comedian for racism, homophobia and sexism.

There's a comedy singer from Australia called Kevin Bloody Wilson. He's not to everyone's taste, but there is a similar story about one of his songs.
He was playing a gig in Canada and was told by the venue that there were certain words he would be banned from saying on stage, one of which was "Cnt".

He opened his show that night with a song he had written called "You can't say C*nt in Canada".

The whole song is about why some words are offensive and some aren't.

There is a note perfect Stewart Lee routine (actually an entire half hour show) where he nails the matter of context.

See also Tim Minchin's song Cont, which is brilliant as well.

Is it not reasonable that a Pakistani employee who works at a conference centre shouldn't have to, nor be expected to hear JS calling Rishi Sunak a p%%i live on stage?

Is it not reasonable that a Pakistani employee who has competed hard for the opportunity to usher at one of the biggest comedy venues in the world's biggest art festival, for experience and prestige rather than financial reward, would have had a wee peek at their rota, thought 'this might be a really difficult show for me to cover', spoken to their shift manager and got a swap to one of the 40 other shows on in that hour?

From chortle. The Pleasance’s latest statement reads, in full:

‘As previously stated, the Pleasance chose to pull Jerry Sadowitz’s second and final show.

'Due to numerous complaints, we became immediately aware of content that was considered, among other things, extreme in its racism, sexism, homophobia and misogyny.

‘We will not associate with content which attacks people’s dignity and the language used on stage was, in our view, completely unacceptable.

‘A large number of people walked out of Jerry Sadowitz’s show as they felt uncomfortable and unsafe to remain in the venue.

'We have received an unprecedented number of complaints that could not be ignored and we had a duty to respond. The subsequent abuse directed to our teams is also equally unacceptable.

‘At the Pleasance, our values are to be inclusive, diverse and welcoming.

'We are proud of the progress we have made across our programming, which includes significant investment and support for Black, Asian and Global Majority artists, LGBTQ+ voices, those from working class backgrounds, and the strong representation of women.
We do not believe that racism, homophobia, sexism or misogynistic language have a place in our venues.

‘In a changing world, stories and language that were once accepted on stage, whether performed in character or not, need to be challenged. There is a line that we will not cross at the Pleasance, and it was our view that this line was crossed on this occasion.

We don’t vet the full content of acts in advance and while Jerry Sadowitz is a controversial comedian, we could not have known the specifics of his performance.

'The Pleasance has staged his work numerous times over the years, but as soon as we received complaints from those in the building which caused us great concern, we knew we could not allow the final performance to go ahead.

‘The arts and comedy in particular have always pushed the boundaries of social norms but this boundary is always moving.

'Our industry has to move with it. However, this does not mean that we can allow such content to be on our stages.’

There is a note perfect Stewart Lee routine (actually an entire half hour show) where he nails the matter of context. Really it should be shown in schools. (Much like that note perfect Guardian advert from the 80s about perspective).

It centres around a 7 word phrase he heard that he refuses to quote as it was "racist, sizist and blasphemous"

"... and yet the irony is I have used every single one of the words in that phrase in the past 20 minutes but none of you found them offensive because of their context."

And he's right.

Just restating my view there's no such thing as magic words.

Chortle have reproduced sadowitz's statement and the full pleasance statement. Plus this which is useful:

"The only report about the exact nature of the offensive content was one punter telling the Scottish Sun: ‘He called Rishi Sunak a "p*'"; said the economy was awful because it is run by "blacks and women".

...

It is unlikely the nudity would have been the trigger as several Fringe shows feature such scenes. "

To me, the pleasance's lack of clarity and detail about exactly what got him cancelled is very serious. They are failing in their responsibility to sadowitz, the audience, and freedom of expression in comedy more generally. It will have a chilling effect beyond this because of the lack odlf detail.

www.chortle.co.uk/news/2022/08/14/51467/pleasance_staff_abused_after_jerry_sadowitz_ban

Context is everything, isn't it? If Sadowitz said "Rishi Sunak is a p" that's rather different from saying "The Tory party is full of racists who think Rishi Sunak is a p".

I have no idea what he did say, by the way. We're all operating in the dark on this, unfortunately.

Appreciate the reply Nonny and sorry if I misinterpreted your initial post. The context of words is what we have been discussing this entire post, after all.

I think I might have got angrier'n you did on your behalf, Nonny. What an idiot, and I'm sorry you had that experience.

And thank you for an eloquent, insightful post.

Well said NonnyMouse

👏 nonnymouse