Jerry Sadowitz

It's happened in music festivals. Most of the big festivals are very mainstream now.

I'm not saying these acts won't have anywhere to perform, but if there's a risk of being cancelled and no publicly from it, why would they bother.

It's going to be difficult for performers to not only appeal to their intended audience, but not offend those who were never going to buy tickets in the first place.

2015! Must look for my reading spectacles before posting…

Here’s a couple of articles on the cost of performing at Edinburgh, one from earlier this year and one from 2016

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-comic-says-fringe-now-23535642

theguardian.com/stage/2015/aug/04/the-cost-of-staging-an-edinburgh-fringe-show-artists-open-their-account-books

Comics spend a lot of money on their fringe shows, often making a loss or at best, barely breaking even.

which is fine if you are using it as an experimental space for your upcoming big venue tour or as a PR tool with the aim of getting the attention of promoters/agents/management or generating enough publicity via press reviews to make up the festival loss of funds on your winter comedy circuit tour.

if your show gets cancelled after you’ve already shelled out the costs of accommodation, travel, cost of printed posters/promotional flyers etc (plus time off the day job for the smaller profile acts) you are going to miss out on most of the upsides whilst still incurring most of the downsides (and even if the venue refunds on your broken contract you will still have the other losses).

for Sadowitz, it’s a slightly different story as this wave of ‘bad publicity’ has reminded Gen Xers who watched the 90s TV shows of his existence, and they have just enough disposable income to buy up the tour tickets, but that’s a unplanned PR strategy that is one-time-only and not one a younger, less experienced cancelled comic who doesn’t have sleeper-fans from 30 years ago can replicate.

The fringe needs to be careful not to make the risks too big for future comics to bother with. That’s what will suck the soul out of the festival, but it will be a slow dwindle to death, rather than a big, obvious fall in sales in a short period. Ticket buyers will just decide that each year is getting safer and duller until they eventually decide to spend their money doing something else in August.

I suppose one of the Pleasance’s rivals could counteract/capitalise on this years hoo-ha by offering Sadowitz a high profile slot next year to ward off some of that fear (personally, I think a ‘Sadowitz presents’ event of a whole line up of younger, upcoming, potentially controversial comics chosen by Sadowitz could be a great way to handle it) but that would rely on Sadowitz accepting that offer and at 61 with what, almost 40 years of fringe experience?
He might just tell them to fuck off.

I think you are hugely exaggerating this issue.

How tame can a fringe be before it's not a fringe?

I can see it becoming a fringe event in name only, as fewer of the edgy acts will risk going, or few venues will risk hosting the acts that are likely to be controversial.

There will still be a lot of money in it, but it will just be a place for mainstream entertainment. All the other acts will go elsewhere.

Yes, that's what I meant.

I don't think it's ticket sales this year that is the issue, but the willingness of (particularly) comics long term wanting to come to an event that might cancel them, with all the repercussions that might have. How tame can a fringe be before it's not a fringe?

in other news I copied and pasted a few of the Pleasance’s buzzwords from their two statements into google

‘align with our values
Unacceptable
Dignity
Uncomfortable
Unsafe
Inclusive
Diverse’

I have really come to loathe the word "diverse". It's used in ways that are often completely meaningless, or as if it is in itself an unqualified good in all circumstances. In some cases it seems to mean a group of things that are actually all the same.

"Inclusive" is a close second.

This is the Fringe, not the Festival, but no, it really isn't going to collapse. See the later story.

metro.co.uk/2022/07/25/edinburgh-fringe-in-jeopardy-over-slow-ticket-sales-17064931/

www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/aug/05/edinburgh-fringe-return-surge-in-sales

I have an awful feeling that the Edinburgh Festival is going to collapse in on itself if it keeps going like this. But if 'principles' are more important than business to some venues, so be it.

I saw this line about "values" in an article about the police:

Police will be sacked for abusing women

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7ff3eb0a-1d99-11ed-add4-d333562d46fb?shareToken=257c788a0b2dcd19f231b11f4cfe3b86

"Marsh [head of College of Policing] said the new guidance made clear that officers who committed crime or “don’t respect our values” should not be allowed to serve."

Obviously officer who break the law shouldn't be there. Obviously officers who abuse their power shouldn't be there. But what "values"? These ones?

"“The sex/gender identification of individuals will be based on how they present or how they self-declare, which is consistent with the values of the organisation.”"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b2a2960e-0e91-11ec-868a-b68487b876a6?shareToken=ca047458f6ff7fbd6d7b36c5430ac250

#nothankyou

Yes, it’s a conscious choice by Sadowitz himself. He also reportedly asked reviewers to avoid quoting him from 2008 onwards,

This year, veteran comedian Jerry Sadowitz has drawn a line in the sand. In an open letter to arts editors across the land last week, he wrote: "Dear sir/madam. This email is a request to all newspapers/magazines, that if they feel they must review my show in Edinburgh, could you PLEASE not quote the actual material in the review? A very important element of comedy is surprise, and it can often make the difference between a show that works and one that does not."

source:www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/jerry-sadowitz-plea-reporters-not-quote-his-material-2462719?amp

presumably the lack of YouTube clips is part of the same strategy.

in other news I copied and pasted a few of the Pleasance’s buzzwords from their two statements into google

‘align with our values
Unacceptable
Dignity
Uncomfortable
Unsafe
Inclusive
Diverse’

The top few hits were articles about the Pleasance kerfuffle and the next few were:

buffer.com/resources/inclusive-language-tech/

www.zendesk.co.uk/blog/start-using-inclusive-language/

www.leru.org/files/LERU-EDI-paper_final.pdf

www.bain.com/insights/the-fabric-of-belonging-how-to-weave-an-inclusive-culture/

www.angloamerican.com/~/media/Files/A/Anglo-American-Group/PLC/sustainability/our-strategy/our-code-of-conduct-english.pdf

so it must be coming from American Equity, Diversion and Inclusion training.

the first page of Google hits from this side of the pond were

AQA exam board:
www.aqa.org.uk/about-us/who-we-are/our-standards/equal-opportunities-policy

And this from the Welsh Government: gov.wales/workforce-equality-diversity-and-inclusion-strategy-2021-to-2026-html

I feel a bit… stepford wife-brainwashed now.

I completely agree that the ‘unsafe’ and ‘not aligned with values’ is a script. Probably originates from somewhere like the Denton’s document or that terrible American Diversity and Inclusion consultancy that was giving illegal HR advice to Maya Forstater’s think tank bosses. I wonder if we can track down it’s start point?

One of my oldest friends was a contestant on Jerry’s TV panel show ‘The People Versus Jerry Sadowitz’ back in in the late 90s.

She said it was as terrifying as he was brilliant and that he treated her impeccably after the filming was over.

I suspect this will be a wake up call for quite a few comics and comedy writers as Jerry has always been almost untouchable until now and while he gave up TV some years ago and regularly has his work scraped from YouTube, he’s seen as a comedians comedian and has continued to be quietly successful. Sadly my local date on his upcoming tour is already sold out.

Pretty much every word out of Jerry’s mouth is offensive but he’s also clever and often profound. A sort of Scottish Bill Hicks, a bit like Jimmy Carr but with a strange sense of vulnerability - I can’t remember where I read it but someone described Sadowitz’s jokes as ‘all punching up’ because his on stage persona is so pathetic and his self loathing is even greater than his general misanthropy.

Sadowitz is a brilliant card magician and has written a number of books about sleight of hand magic. I believe he helped Derren Brown get his first TV show and was also ‘Piff The Magic Dragon’s’ entry point to magic (and indeed my friend who was once on Jerry’s TV show went on to be a successful offensive/irreverent comedian/variety performer in her own right and until covid had a long term Las Vegas residency).

(Weird fact, Sadowitz played the Ebeneezer Goode character in The Shaman’s pop video for the single - something he reportedly regretted because he hadn’t picked up on the drug reference until afterwards)

m.youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk

oh! Also Jerry was telling his audiences that Saville was a paedo as far back as 1987:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2216358/amp/Jimmy-Savile-allegations-Why-did-listen-Jerry-Sadowitzs-howl-rage.html

It's odd, isn't it?

The same phrases are used to describe very different sutuations, the experiences of the injured parties, and the apology issued.

But they aren't spelling out those values - which in the case of the YMCA should be obvious, but are obviously not Christian any more. And the Pleasance didn't read Sadowitz's background?
So who is scripting these puppets?

I find "not aligned with our values" a really chilling phrase.

Why should everyone else be 'aligned' with someone else's values?

I agree with you Treacle. It's like there's a script.

It's the use of the same language that concerns me.

unsafe really means upset or offended. It’s another way of saying I don’t want to think about it.

Content warnings used to come on CD cases and Video game boxes because there was swearing or violence and there were age ratings on films to denote the content. Porn films used to be sold behind the counter. There used to be vicars protesting outside of really dodgy venues or films. And it used to be more that older people from religious or moral groups were pushing for these warnings and talking about values - not young people wanting warnings and protection from their own art, music, movies, groups etc. It’s quite a strange twist.

It’s a way of controlling you. The abusive behaviour of minimising and maximising (double standards), Turning behaviour back on you, making you doubt yourself, putting other people off helping etc.

A long way from the start of this thread, but I woke up realising that the same language was used by the Pleasance about Sadowitz as by the YMCA about 80m year old Julie. "unsafe" and "not aligned with our values", and these linked with lies. Lying about what a woman said, and her history of abusing staff, without evidence, and lying about the behaviour of the audience - walking out and complaining, comtrary to the evidence.
Why are these behaviours the same in totally different contexts, and where are they learned?

When people stop believing in God, they will believe anything

to paraphrase G.K. Chesterton.