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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dear Richard Madeley: ‘My transgender brother is furious with my choice of baby name’

133 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 13/08/2022 20:14

Interesting piece on the agony uncle pages of the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/dear-richard-madeley-transgender-brother-furious-choice-baby/

The key point is that a pregnant woman who has a transman sibling wants to name her baby after a female ancestor who was important to them as she (ancestor) was a suffragette and a scientist. Transman sibling has stopped to talking to her because the ancestor's name is also the transman's deadname. The writer of the letter and the wider family had supported the transman through transition and had previously had a good relationship.

Richard's reply is that she should name the baby what she likes and to "tell your brother to grow up. There’s already one baby on the way.
"You say he had full family support during his trans journey. Well, support flows both ways. Tell him how important it is to you to honour your ancestor. And why shouldn’t you? Is this valued family figure – part of ALL your collective pasts – destined to become a sort of non-person simply because of your brother?
As for him refusing to speak to you over this… well, really. He’s being over-dramatic and, frankly, ridiculous. In fact, if the naming of his little niece is the biggest thing in his life he has to worry about, he’s an extremely lucky man."

Which I thought was very good advice.

It does raise interesting questions about the nature of a deadname.

If dead then surely can be re-used? If there is still an issue then it is not dead at all. Say the deadname was Sally and the transman is now Fred then it suggests philosophically there is still a Sally-iness about Fred, if it really was a dead name there would not be. And that is why Fred is uncomfortable. If there never was any Sally to Fred and just Fred waiting to come out then surely the Sally name should be available to use within the family for others??

I wonder if a situation with the married surname of a woman who divorces and wants to never hear her ex-name again is structurally similar?

Mrs Smith goes back to being Miss Jones. Changes her documents and never, ever, ever uses the name again. Miss Jones would still have to use Smith on any document that says 'any other name you have been known by'? Surely? Is Miss Jones every really able to lose the Smith completely? would she really expect never to hear it again?

And say the married name was unusual like Fernsby. Women can choose to change their name or not. What if a friend or a cousin or sister met another Mr Fernsby and wanted to marry and take the name Fernsby, would anyone think it reasonable if the women for whom that name was 'dead' objected to the name change and having another Mrs Fernsby in the family even if the name was a traumatic one where there had been DV or soemthing?

Those of us who do change our names have our MIL, and SIL possibly too, all the same Mrs xxxx as we are. Possibly even the ex-wife too! Maybe more than one ex-wife!! Are woman just more used to having odd name associations and changes?

Although this story is a transman I associate the deadname issue more with transwomen for some reason. Maybe because women expect and evolving name identity?

OP posts:
CherryBlossomAutumn · 13/08/2022 20:41

I would say if I was the sister that some things are not all about her brother! And just move on and call my baby whatsoever I liked.

ChristinaXYZ · 13/08/2022 20:39

Agreed @ivejustgotthis

OP posts:
ChristinaXYZ · 13/08/2022 20:38

Ridcully82 · 13/08/2022 20:24

I still find "dead name" when "former name" is meant difficult: no one is dead. And it minimises the loss of actual death.

Yes, it is rather sad when looked at like that (I'm not being sarky). People who find actual religion talk about being re-born which at least has a joyous sense about it. But to talk about deadening or killing off your former self is very hard on your present self.

OP posts:
ChristinaXYZ · 13/08/2022 20:36

junebirthdaygirl · 13/08/2022 20:27

I genuinely don't know why the pregnant sister wants to cause such drama. Just pick another name if it is upsetting their sibling. No need to complicate things even further.

But it is an important name to the pregnant woman. What if you were descended from Emmeline Pankhurst - would feel miffed if you could not use it? Or just a much loved parent or grandparent's name?

Repeated family name use is a bit out of fashion but not entirely (The Royal family seem to name every other child Elizabeth, Diana, Louis or Philip). My sibling and I used the same middle name for two of ours and never thought about it.

I hope she stocks to her guns and uses it.

OP posts:
dropthevipers · 13/08/2022 20:35

junebirthdaygirl · 13/08/2022 20:27

I genuinely don't know why the pregnant sister wants to cause such drama. Just pick another name if it is upsetting their sibling. No need to complicate things even further.

The drama, such as it is, is being caused by the trans person. Why do they get to dictate the chosen name of the Little one? These tantruming toddlers need to get a fucking grip.

ivejustgotthis · 13/08/2022 20:34

Have never respected the Madeley before! Yes, support flows both ways, and a name is a name - and women think through losing their family names at marriage (obvs don't have to), and also taking on the name to sound like their mother in law which is weird. So people have to do all sorts of mental gymnastics about names. Very rigid navel gazing thinking from the sibling.

junebirthdaygirl · 13/08/2022 20:27

I genuinely don't know why the pregnant sister wants to cause such drama. Just pick another name if it is upsetting their sibling. No need to complicate things even further.

Ridcully82 · 13/08/2022 20:24

I still find "dead name" when "former name" is meant difficult: no one is dead. And it minimises the loss of actual death.