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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Drag Queen Story Time - and a business opportunity for the GC

109 replies

expandabandband · 11/08/2022 10:14

So, I went into my local library to calmly state my problems with them having Drag Queen Story Time in a couple of weeks. Ended up having a chat with the Library Supervisor whose line was very much that [ourcounty] libraries are inclusive for everyone. And this kept being repeated, along with the fact that it was optional.

Except Drag Queen Story nonsense is the only one which they have - and I pointed out that this privileges it and I would have less of an issue if it was just one among many (would still have an issue but was trying to be reasonable).

So she kept saying that of course they were inclusive of everyone and if other groups approached them they would host them in just the same way.

But you pay DQST.

Well yes.

Therefore the implication is that they would pay other groups.

SO, here's the plan. Who wants to set up Gender Critical Feminist Story Time? She assures me that our library has loads of feminist books, so it's an easy ask. And if you get turned down, you can sue them!

All we need is an administrator and someone to read the stories, both with high level DSB checks. And perhaps a logo. Who's in?

(I currently run a feminist charity but am happy to be a trustee...)

OP posts:
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expandabandband · 12/08/2022 09:57

Oh and I've just read the Guardian article. This stood out.

The blackface comparison seems particularly wrongheaded. “It is completely unacceptable to compare drag with blackface,” says Nishant Upadhyay, an assistant professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado Boulder. “Drag is an exploration of gender, while blackface is rooted in violent histories of anti-blackness.

SAYS A MAN.

OP posts:
expandabandband · 12/08/2022 09:54

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/08/2022 08:51

Of course, drag has long played a role in British society, from Shakespeare’s time, when women were banned from the stage and men wore female costumes to play their parts
So basically, drag comes from a long history of women being excluded.

Yes, but this is also an anachronism and is ahistorical. Just because men dressed in women's clothes at this time and for this reason does not make it 'drag' as we know it today. This has an entirely different context and meaning.

There's a really interesting analysis to be done - although it ain't going to happen in a university here any time soon - on the power relations of cross dressing and transgenderism in history. Because, as that quote kind of hints, it is deeply connected with power. Men dressed as women because they could, and because women were not permitted to appear as themselves.

I was going to start a thread about this (and will when I have a moment) because there's that Viking trans warrior that everyone talks about - but actually when you start to delve into their history, they are among the most misogynist of societies. 20% female infanticide anyone.

But that's a digression. Back to the issue at hand.

WHO IS GOING TO SET UP FEMINIST STORY HOUR?

Can we approach the publishers of Rebel Girls?

OP posts:
ToGanymedeAndTitan · 12/08/2022 09:44

Making shite up that sounds vaguely plausible; & importing views from the US which is utterly saturated in “black people cannot be racist” & “white people cannot experience racism
White people can't experience racism like black people do though!
To say this as well as comparing drag to blackface is frankly ugh (for want of a better word!)

NitroNine · 12/08/2022 09:29

That article is an absolute embarrassment. Making shite up that sounds vaguely plausible; & importing views from the US which is utterly saturated in “black people cannot be racist” & “white people cannot experience racism” that they correctly identify blackface as punching down & then refuse to acknowledge drag as [containing elements of] the same. No, drag is about “exploring gender”. They’d - rightly - flip their lid if someone tried “blackface is an experiment in race-bending/queering race/exploring race”; but expect women to simply accept the parallel explanation of drag + gender rather than acknowledge that we live in a patriarchy & men hold power over women.

Absolute embarrassment to both the UK & their profession for this journalist to make such a patently absurd claim about Early Modern Theatre. Shakespeare must be spinning in his grave at such a heinous abuse of language & misrepresentation of his Players & their contemporaries. Are they trying to gentrify drag now?! If it belongs to any historical tradition it’s towards some of the Molly Houses. If you’re not really familiar with them/that period I’m not saying drag queens are massively promiscuous; I’m referring simply to the act of cross-dressing combined with creating a “female” persona (inc name); & webs of homosociality intertwined with homosexuality that create hugely complex relationship & social structures. That’s a relevant historical comparison to make - but nobody’s going to do it, because it doesn’t fit the new narrative of “drag is lovely family fun & all men in dresses are exactly the same & Shakespeare did it you uncultured swine…”.

AutumnSquill · 12/08/2022 09:10

Fair enough, YetAnotherSpartacus, it's just so relentless. The other day, I saw a post elsewhere about an event that was supposedly encouraging girls into a particular area where women are under-represented. And who did they have presenting? Men.
If I'd been braver, I would have asked why this was, did they not think of asking women to speak, or could they not find any willing to speak? If not, why not? It's any area with a very bad reputation for bullying and harassment, and speaking out about it ends up with you out of a job.
But back to the original suggestion: great idea, OP.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/08/2022 08:51

Of course, drag has long played a role in British society, from Shakespeare’s time, when women were banned from the stage and men wore female costumes to play their parts
So basically, drag comes from a long history of women being excluded.

Yes, but this is also an anachronism and is ahistorical. Just because men dressed in women's clothes at this time and for this reason does not make it 'drag' as we know it today. This has an entirely different context and meaning.

Levis8903 · 12/08/2022 08:40

But with a name like that, too many libraries would refuse to book us because of fear of a backlash from the alphabet soup brigade.

100%. Just call it feminist story time.

Great idea btw.

AutumnSquill · 12/08/2022 08:21

Birdsweepsin · 12/08/2022 03:32

I didn't make it through the whole article, but this stood out for me:
Of course, drag has long played a role in British society, from Shakespeare’s time, when women were banned from the stage and men wore female costumes to play their parts
So basically, drag comes from a long history of women being excluded.

drifttothecenter · 12/08/2022 08:14

Birdsweepsin · 12/08/2022 03:32

Yet more mainstream press attempting to associate FWR with the far right.

We sse you.

cariadlet · 12/08/2022 03:54

I think a GC feminist story hour would be fantastic.

But with a name like that, too many libraries would refuse to book us because of fear of a backlash from the alphabet soup brigade.

I'd call it Diversity Story Hour. They love that word and with stories about strong girls and women, families with 2 mums or 2 dads, boys who liked "girly" things but still knew that they were boys, children with disabilities, and children from a variety of ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds it could actually be properly diverse and inclusive.

DrJump · 12/08/2022 03:48

Oh god I didn't realise the libraries were paying for DQST. I just can't even.

Birdsweepsin · 12/08/2022 03:32

www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/aug/11/im-just-trying-to-make-the-world-a-little-brighter-how-the-culture-wars-hijacked-drag-queen-story-hour?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Guardian, your misogyny is showing. And nice dig at MN, you really don't like us do you?

cariadlet · 12/08/2022 02:41

PaterPower · 11/08/2022 11:22

I’d love to know how DQST came about in the first place.

Did a DQ approach your local library service and say “I could come and read stories to kids for you… oh and here’s the fee I’ll charge?”

…or did the library take it upon themselves to go out and source a DQ, for a fee, in order to “promote inclusiveness” / follow the trail bravely blazoned by the ‘rainbow dildo butt monkeys?’

If the former, did they put the role out to a competitive tender? What due diligence did they undertake before employing the DQ in question? Did they look into whether other, perhaps more conventionally qualified, readers would be prepared to offer their services for free? How did they decide that what the DQST offered was better value for money than, for instance, investing more towards new books, or updating their computers?

If they went out to source one, what other under-represented groups did they approach? Did they get quotes to achieve best value for their (no doubt limited) discretionary budget? Have they sought feedback from users of the new ‘service’ to confirm they’re getting the ROI they expected?

It started in San Francisco. There's a section about the origins in this video

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 12/08/2022 01:56

And if they feel the 'costume' element of the storytime is lacking, perhaps the gender critical storytellers could come dressed as female scientists, businesswomen, footballers, doctors, politicians etc..? You know, something young girls should aspire to be, instead of being encouraged to aim for a glorious career on Onlyfans?
See, I don't see anything wrong with a storytime that celebrates women in prominent roles.
I do take issue with people judging other women judging them for choices you might not yourself take.

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ScrollingLeaves · 12/08/2022 01:20

What a good idea.

Well done, and thank you, for going in to speak to the library management.

Deliriumoftheendless · 11/08/2022 16:45

CompleteGinasaur · 11/08/2022 11:36

And if they feel the 'costume' element of the storytime is lacking, perhaps the gender critical storytellers could come dressed as female scientists, businesswomen, footballers, doctors, politicians etc..? You know, something young girls should aspire to be, instead of being encouraged to aim for a glorious career on Onlyfans?

I really like this idea- dressing up as various important and inspirational women from history and reading relevant stories.

that could be really diverse, sexuality, age, ethnicity, religion, race, disabilities etc.

Blister · 11/08/2022 16:35

We could get one of the lionesses to tour libraries, reading the stories of other sporting greats like Raducanu, Williams and Adlington.

Women bigging up women. I like it.

IcakethereforeIam · 11/08/2022 16:18

Could you imagine the protests? At least the tras would get a bit of fresh air, bless. I wonder how the guardian would write it up.

DOBARDAN · 11/08/2022 15:24

Thank you so much for putting your (our) points across at your local library, OP
The ideas in the posts here are brilliant, exactly what children need and deserve

BaileySharp · 11/08/2022 13:10

Dinosaur story time? Can use Dinosaur costumes and kids love Dinosaur stories!

NitroNine · 11/08/2022 12:47

Scientist story time could include cheap to run simple experiments - like lemon juice invisible ink…

I am not losing the run of myself 😳

Torunette · 11/08/2022 12:28

CompleteGinasaur · 11/08/2022 11:36

And if they feel the 'costume' element of the storytime is lacking, perhaps the gender critical storytellers could come dressed as female scientists, businesswomen, footballers, doctors, politicians etc..? You know, something young girls should aspire to be, instead of being encouraged to aim for a glorious career on Onlyfans?

Your post really nails something here.

Would it not be a better idea to have "scientist story time" where stories about science were told by a scientist? You could riff on this theme for ages, combining children meeting a real "scientist/businesswoman/doctor/nurse/botanist/engineer etc" with the theme of the story being told.

This would open up the world of professions, interests and hobbies to children, which is something that needs to happen in a lot of areas where there is little exposure to huge swathes of human endeavour.

Because DQST is just, fundamentally, about young children meeting a drag queen who reads a story. And that's it. What other further educational outcomes are there for children in this?

Cholette · 11/08/2022 12:14

We could wear our dinosaur and witches costumes 😀

Onandupw · 11/08/2022 12:10

I would be…

Onandupw · 11/08/2022 12:10

Is be proposing that female strippers come in with the “content altered to be children appropriate”. And I would wear exactly the same clothes as the drag queens.

and then I would sit back and seek them explain their refusal