It just doesn't make sense!!

Multiple articles from the Archives of sexual behaviour.

Yikes.

Are you suggesting transgenderism has a sexual component?

I mean I totally agree, I think autogynephilia drives a lot of this, we have been saying so for years. So have the self aware autogynephiliacs.

It really isnt about gay men with feminine souls expressing their femininity and self parodying, but to hear it coming from you!

Aren't you afraid? That definately isn't the party line.

You might get accused of transphobia.

But the point was that the gay men mocking themselves were not women. They were mocking their own, " socially unacceptable in men" femininity. Which is a bit misogynist.

By the logic of the gender identity ideology, TWAW therefore it isn't drag. Just the female gender dressing as the female gender. It would be logically consistent at least if TW claimed to be female but dressed as a parody of men or if a trans king, dressed as a woman.

So which is it? You can't have both.

It has become people of any sex or "gender identity" just parodying females and extreme femininity. It is misogynist and females ( those with a healthy self anyway) are telling you so.

It IS a privileged group (males) mocking one they as a group oppressed ( females).

It is womanface.

Cailleach1 I'm not an expert in these matters I'm just someone who knows some trans people and has read a few of their blogs, etc. my understanding is there is gender identity ('inside') and gender expression ('outside') so people that dress in a 'masculine' way and vice versa doesn't change who they are on the inside. E.g. one of my friends at work is a trans woman. She is long post op and has had her GRC a long time. She mainly wears similar clothes to me: trousers, flat shoes, maybe a blouse or shirt nothing that screams 'femininity' in a performative way, she just is. If I wear clothes from the Men's section, men's shoes and cut my hair short it doesn't make me a man. However some trans men may feel that's all they need to do, I don't pretend to know how people feel.

I don't think there's anything 'uniquely trans' they are just people same as us.

the winter soldier
Trans people have been around for centuries in every culture, it's not a new thing.
But these are not transpeople, they are men who don’t want to follow the gendered rules of how to dress.
They have never said they wanted to be a woman or live like one.

Sorry MineIsBetterThanYours, I don't know who you mean. If they aren't trans then they aren't trans, could you clarify? Probably need more coffee

Actually, there is mandated dress for women in some countries. Would someone be labelling me as 'Trans' in Saudi Arabia, or Iran?

Well, what is the definition Trans people then? If there are allegedly 'Trans' people in every culture and through time and space, what is the universal definition of Trans that separates people out from their sex?

Obviously, it cannot be clothes or mannerisms. My attire of linen shirt, jeans and t shirts don't change me. Or actions and activities. Even though it would have been scandalous (or forbidden) for women in times gone by.

So, nothing we wear, and nothing we do can separate us out as anything other than our sex.

So, what is uniquely Trans, and what is a universal stand alone definition?

then it shouldn't be an issue to other women whether THAT ONE has more bits than them between her legs.

Can’t be arsed with the stupidity of the post which has been made and refuted literally thousands of times before on here, I just wanted to point out “more bits.”

Fucking misogynistic shitheads.

But these are not transpeople, they are men who don’t want to follow the gendered rules of how to dress.
They have never said they wanted to be a woman or live like one.

@CherryColaRoller It’s really not that varied. The vast majority of male drag involves dressing as women.

How on earth can drag be seen as gay men mocking themselves? They're dressing up as hypersexualised pornified women?! Gay men need to grow a pair, accept that they can be misogynists even if they are not heterosexual and see how degrading drag is to many women. They should reject it from their culture - it also does no favours to show how gay men are just a normal part of everyday British community.

"Oh dear. So, women now wear trousers and tee shirts; vote; can own property; can have a bank a/c; and, travel without their spouse/guardian say so. Does that mean all of us who do that have really turned into men? Sorry, transitioned into T.

Are the chappies from hot climes in sarongs suddenly the other sex too?

Jeepers, I'd better drop the linen shirt. Stupid silly people from the future might say I am T. As an indisputable fact, even."

Where did I say any of that?!

There are female drag queens now, and there are also trans female ones, I don't think it's that difficult to understand. It's a style of performance and people of any gender identity can do it.

Blackface isn't acceptable because it's a privileged group mocking one they as a group oppress, and while I have some issues with misogyny in drag, I would say historically it's more about gay men mocking themselves than it is about degrading women.

Oh dear. So, women now wear trousers and tee shirts; vote; can own property; can have a bank a/c; and, travel without their spouse/guardian say so. Does that mean all of us who do that have really turned into men? Sorry, transitioned into T.

Are the chappies from hot climes in sarongs suddenly the other sex too?

Jeepers, I'd better drop the linen shirt. Stupid silly people from the future might say I am T. As an indisputable fact, even.

The likelihood of a trans woman being abused if she were to use the gents is far higher than the likelihood of her suddenly deciding to out herself as "Assigned Male At Birth" and create a scene when using the ladies. A trans lady also wants to pee in peace

This is just emotional blackmail.
Where is all thos evidence of transwomen being beaten up for using correct sexed facilities?
There is however, plenty of evidence of males claiming to be trans who have sexually assaulted women and girls in single sex spaces and men who use mixed sex 'gender neutral' spaces to assault women and girls.

There are dozens of combinations of X and Y chromosomes, 3.5% of the population is neither a simple XX nor a simple XY

Whilst there are sexual development disorders and variations in chromosomes, none of them are evidence of there being anything other than the male or female sex binary or of 'trans'

If chromosome testing proved transness, let's do it. Let's see how many of the males who claim to be women are not XY.

'If you don't know any trans people, then maybe you should refrain from debating the topic.'

If you don't know what it is to be a Woman, then maybe you should refrain from saying you are one.

You're clueless. For starters it's much less than 3.5%, top estimates for intersex people is 1.7%. And simple maths says that even with trisomy (extra chromosome) there are only 14 combinations, assuming all of them were valid (they're not), not 'dozens'. If we're allowed to make sh*t up for sake of argument then it's pointless debating it.

A man intent on hurting a woman or a girl does not first pretends to be a woman or a girl to gain their confidence.

105 examples here of assaults by males who claim to identify as transgender.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/this-never-happens

I don't know if any of them are pretending to be trans or if they are genuine transwomen who just happen to be violent criminals.

There are dozens of combinations of X and Y chromosomes, 3.5% of the population is neither a simple XX nor a simple XY.

No, there are not.

And I still have no idea why sex chromosome aneuploidies (in which, btw, the person still has a biological sex) are in any way relevant to gender identity philosophies.

If you don't know any trans people, then maybe you should refrain from debating the topic.

Somewhat ironic from someone who is posting incorrect scientific information. As a scientist, I could ask you to refrain from participating in the part of this discussion which requires an accurate understanding of genetics/cytogenetics, developmental biology and molecular biology.

There are dozens of combinations of X and Y chromosomes,

How do you get "dozens of combinations" of two chromosomes, even with polysomy that sounds mathematically impossible?

I wanted to call this out:

“In fact trans people are still subject to a lot of abuse, and more specifically trans women who are abused both by cis women "you're men!" and men "you effing poofters!" and they feel very unsafe and unprotected.”

Yes, your second example clearly is abuse because it’s making a slur on someone’s sexuality using derogatory words . I can understand how someone would feel threatened by that. Particularly when said by men with a penchant for violence.

However, your first example - “you're men!"“ is not at all threatening.. it’s stating a biological fact. It’s not insulting to be a man. There’s nothing abusive about the term “man”.. Especially when said by women who have far less propensity for violence. Why on Earth would someone feel unsafe and unprotected for that?

Thanks @PomegranateOfPersephone I did type a long post but lost it.

That explanation makes sense. Thank you again.