Page 5 | What do people mean by “identify as”?

StillHappy · 2022-08-07T15:22:14+00:00

The phrase is used a lot, but I can’t find any common definition of it. It seems to be used to mean “I’d like to be”, or “I’d like to be treated as though I was”, but then some people also seem to use it to mean “all objective measures show I am not, but I really am, as I say I am.” Is it any of these, none, or some mixture? I’m a woman, but don’t think I identify as one. I can just see that I am from historic events (namely the children that I gave birth to.) What is someone who appears not to be a woman asserting it claiming when they say they identify as one? Is it a different class of claim to, let’s say, someone claiming to be a sensitive caring lover, who isn’t, or a woman identifying as the missing Russian princess, daughter of the last Tsar? Is anyone who uses this language willing to flesh it out?

wellhelloitsme · 07/08/2022 18:45

wellhelloitsme · 07/08/2022 18:42

I identify as a woman = I believe in and agree with gender stereotypes and think that my preferences are most aligned with the stereotypes most associated with women.

Failing to acknowledge that plenty of women don't fit those stereotypes, which are often outdated and almost always superficial.

I'm a woman because I'm an adult human female, not because I personally choose to wear make up.

To be more accurate:

I identify as a woman = I believe in and agree with gender stereotypes and think that my preferences are most aligned with the stereotypes most associated with women even though I am biologically male and cannot know what it is like to live as a woman; because 'living as a woman' isn't simply appropriating the stereotypes women are expected to live up to by the patriarchy.

And they fail to acknowledge that you can't 'transition' out of male entitlement, so when we share the definition of 'woman', they call us transphobic. Despite us being women.

picklemewalnuts · 07/08/2022 18:44

There are some grey areas it works.

For example, I have a chronic condition and could identify as disabled. I don't yet feel I want to. I am limited by my condition, but don't feel it's enough to classify, most of the time.

I think you could be of one ethnicity and be born in a different place, yet identify as one, the other or both. My children are half welsh but do not identify as anything but English.

There are places where the term helps you to express which part of your identity best describes who you are.

What you should never do, is identify as something you are not.

wellhelloitsme · 07/08/2022 18:42

I identify as a woman = I believe in and agree with gender stereotypes and think that my preferences are most aligned with the stereotypes most associated with women.

Failing to acknowledge that plenty of women don't fit those stereotypes, which are often outdated and almost always superficial.

I'm a woman because I'm an adult human female, not because I personally choose to wear make up.

Fairislefandango · 07/08/2022 18:41

It means 'I consider myself to be, in spite of solid evidence to the contrary'. If you actually were something, there would be no need to identify as it.

Original poster

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 18:39

Zoeslatesttrope · 07/08/2022 18:35

"feel more like than the thing I actually am" ?

I don't thnk that that can work as, taking the male / female thing, no male can know what it would feel like to be female. They can't really even know what a male feeling is, as none of us know which of our feelings are shared with our sex and not shared by the opposite sex.

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Zoeslatesttrope · 07/08/2022 18:35

"feel more like than the thing I actually am" ?

bumpycrop · 07/08/2022 18:27

Yes @Somanysocks exactly.

I identify as = I pretend to be ...

Original poster

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 18:27

PoundPill · 07/08/2022 18:19

Great post OP. One where you can bash everybody for any opinion or insight they are willing to give.
The bashing is more interesting than the subject matter. Do please carry on.

I've not bashed anyone, but it's interesting that rather than anyone give a definition we've had several posters, you included, who have decided to just post without adding anything.

It's almost as though this is one of the subjects that you don't actually want anyone to look too closely at.

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PoundPill · 07/08/2022 18:19

Great post OP. One where you can bash everybody for any opinion or insight they are willing to give.
The bashing is more interesting than the subject matter. Do please carry on.

Somanysocks · 07/08/2022 18:14

Does it mean 'pretending', maybe?

Wouldloveanother · 07/08/2022 18:05

‘I’m not but I want to be treated like I am’

Aquamarine1029 · 07/08/2022 18:04

A man can never identify as a woman. They are not a woman, they will never be a woman, and they will never know what it's like to navigate life as a biological female.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 07/08/2022 18:01

Isn’t it shorthand for “I want you to believe / perceive me as (insert preference) in order to externally validate my inner feelings / beliefs” ?

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 07/08/2022 18:00

"dress up as an approximation of, and feel good about myself when I do so"

Original poster

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 17:54

Twattergy · 07/08/2022 17:38

One situation from personal knowledge that it makes sense (to me) is for this person who I know closely. Is female. In recent years, since mid teens, asked to be called by a male name and for male pronouns to be used. Does not wish to have gender change surgery. Dresses androgynously. So he identifies as male. In my view if he became a trans man (hormones, surgery etc) he'd no longer identify as male, he would be male. But for now saying he identifies as male is accurate. I have no idea if this is how he'd see it though.

You are using a definition of “male” that is clearly wrong there, and still haven’t explained what “identify as” means.

I am starting to suspect that no-one who uses it is able to do so. Doesn’t that concern you, that you are using words that you seem not to understand?

Please, have a try, what does “identify as” mean?

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Whatwouldscullydo · 07/08/2022 17:54

They cannot become male even through surgery or hormones though

Perhaps the phrase identify as can be defined as- the willingness of others to lie about what they see/know.

Its the only way it works without redefining all other words to a point they become meaningless and without any real definition

dementedpixie · 07/08/2022 17:51

Twattergy · 07/08/2022 17:38

One situation from personal knowledge that it makes sense (to me) is for this person who I know closely. Is female. In recent years, since mid teens, asked to be called by a male name and for male pronouns to be used. Does not wish to have gender change surgery. Dresses androgynously. So he identifies as male. In my view if he became a trans man (hormones, surgery etc) he'd no longer identify as male, he would be male. But for now saying he identifies as male is accurate. I have no idea if this is how he'd see it though.

They cannot become male even through surgery or hormones though.

I don't identify as anything. I was born female and am a women through that. I dont identify as a woman, I just am one.

SteakExpectations · 07/08/2022 17:47

I think it’s used when the classification isn’t obvious or could be called into question and so is up the individual to clarify their personal position, such as identifying as working class, a feminist, a conservative etc.

I feel that this is another phrase that has been stolen, in the same way that feminism has been.

Twattergy · 07/08/2022 17:38

One situation from personal knowledge that it makes sense (to me) is for this person who I know closely. Is female. In recent years, since mid teens, asked to be called by a male name and for male pronouns to be used. Does not wish to have gender change surgery. Dresses androgynously. So he identifies as male. In my view if he became a trans man (hormones, surgery etc) he'd no longer identify as male, he would be male. But for now saying he identifies as male is accurate. I have no idea if this is how he'd see it though.

Ontomatopea · 07/08/2022 17:37

Can women identify as women?

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/08/2022 17:37

Xy chromosomes

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/08/2022 17:36

But to identify as male you need to define what male is.

Which is where it falls apart because male is the state of having chromosomes and a reproductive system that os set up to produce sperm ( whether or not that system is up and working , present but not working, or surgically removed )

So identify as is a redundant term because you are either male or you arent.

RichardMarxisinnocent · 07/08/2022 17:36

PoundPill · 07/08/2022 17:32

If you are a woman you have female chromosomes in your cells so you will always be genetically female in your DNA.

But

You might identify as a male and may even have surgery to remove your breasts

So you will never be a man due to genetics but you can 'identify' as male

But what does identifying as a man (or woman) mean? I'm a woman and people seem to assume that I identify as a woman, but I have no idea what to identify as a woman means or what it feels like or how I'd know I identify as a woman. Therefore I can't say that I identify as a woman, or indeed as anything else, but there's never an option in surveys etc of "nothing" or "no gender" or even "don't know"

Original poster

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 17:34

PoundPill · 07/08/2022 17:32

If you are a woman you have female chromosomes in your cells so you will always be genetically female in your DNA.

But

You might identify as a male and may even have surgery to remove your breasts

So you will never be a man due to genetics but you can 'identify' as male

OK, so that is using it in a sentence, but it doesn’t say what the phrase means.

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Original poster

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 17:33

RichardMarxisinnocent · 07/08/2022 17:30

I have no idea what it means, and wish someone could explain it to me so I know how to answer surveys and monitoring questionnaires when they ask what gender I identify as. I did fill in a survey earlier which asked me what gender I "associate with" which confused me even more - what on earth does that mean?

That’s a difficult question. My little children don’t seem to have a gender, and my DH most definitely doesn’t.

He’s non-binary I think (likes fast cars, motorbikes, boxing, cooking and taking care of the children), and male, but doesn’t think he identifies as anything.

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