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Original poster

What do people mean by “identify as”?

132 replies

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 16:22

The phrase is used a lot, but I can’t find any common definition of it.

It seems to be used to mean “I’d like to be”, or “I’d like to be treated as though I was”, but then some people also seem to use it to mean “all objective measures show I am not, but I really am, as I say I am.”

Is it any of these, none, or some mixture?

I’m a woman, but don’t think I identify as one. I can just see that I am from historic events (namely the children that I gave birth to.)

What is someone who appears not to be a woman asserting it claiming when they say they identify as one?

Is it a different class of claim to, let’s say, someone claiming to be a sensitive caring lover, who isn’t, or a woman identifying as the missing Russian princess, daughter of the last Tsar?

Is anyone who uses this language willing to flesh it out?

OP posts:
glamourousindierockandroll · 07/08/2022 19:42

It is hard to define what it really means.

For instance, some people in the states "identify as" Italian or Scottish or Irish because of their (sometimes quite distant) heritage. They might take a particular interest in the culture, cuisine, language, history, dress of that country even if they have never visited it before. But I guess there still would always be a link. I'm not sure that people just choose a heritage and adopt it without a justifiable reason.

picklemewalnuts · 07/08/2022 19:40

It has a perfectly useful purpose, it's just been extended far beyond its reach.

Riapia · 07/08/2022 19:39

Identify as means. An attempt to deceive.

AffronttoBS · 07/08/2022 19:38

to me , when I see ‘identify as’ , I substitute ‘claim to be’….which may or may not be true, and if it is true, you might as well say ‘am’ , otherwise, it means ‘pretend to be’.

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:37

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/08/2022 19:36

They would then have to define female.

What is female of not the sex class that produces ova and can house a pregnancy ( whether or not its possible medically to do so)

How do you feel female? What is the deciding factor?

Show quote history

Right, so you’re not actually happy with your own phrasing either! It’s the concept of transgenderism rather than the actual words used. Which is absolutely fine, but don’t dress it up as being unable to understand fairly common terms.

aseriesofstillimages · 07/08/2022 19:37

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 17:31

Is there anyone reading who uses it themselves who could explain what it means to them?

The Paralympic netball team that were able-bodied but identified as disabled, is that any different to Jessica Yaniv identifying as a young girl?

My DH is a doctor of physics; can you “identify as” that, or does it require an award of a doctorate from a registered institution?

I think it’s a way of indicating, in relation to identity categories (mostly gender, sexuality and race) how you regard yourself and would like others to refer to you, where there is more than one reasonable possibility. For example, a person with mixed heritage can identify in different ways. They might or might not identify as black, or as a person of colour. Equally, in relation to sexuality, a woman who has in the past had relationships with men but has only had relationships with women for the last ten years might identify as bisexual or pansexual, or might now identify as gay.

Riverlee · 07/08/2022 19:37

I’ve currently got trousers in. Does that mean I’m identifying as a man? I had a dress on earlier, so does that mean I was then identifying as a woman. So Does that mean I non-binary, or gender fluid? And the dress was blue, not pink, so was I
identifying as male (wearing blue) and female (wearing a dress) at the same time?

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/08/2022 19:36

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:31

I mean, if somebody said ‘I like to think of myself as female’ rather than ‘I identify as female’, would your response be any different?

They would then have to define female.

What is female of not the sex class that produces ova and can house a pregnancy ( whether or not its possible medically to do so)

How do you feel female? What is the deciding factor?

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:34

So what would you say instead?

Original poster
StillHappy · 07/08/2022 19:33

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:31

I mean, if somebody said ‘I like to think of myself as female’ rather than ‘I identify as female’, would your response be any different?

Well yes, of course. It's the difference between someone claiming to be something that they are not and someone politely asking if you would do something a bit strange to accomodate them.

The implicit admission that "identifying as a woman" is completely different to being one would be a welcome change indeed.

OP posts:
Original poster
StillHappy · 07/08/2022 19:32

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:28

Yes, they all mean the same thing though.

Er, what?

They clearly don't, and definitely don't mean the same as people currently use "identify as", which seems much closer to them saying "I am" or "you must treat me as."

It's not only the dropping of the imperative or absolute, though, my suggestions make clear that it refers to what you can do to make someone feel comfortable, as opposed to being a statement of what they "really are."

This is maybe what is mnost confusing with teh whole idea, a phrase that clearly in standard English is close to "I feel akinship with something which I am not" has become used more as "I just know, but can never demonstrate, that I really am something that I appear not to be."

That last meaning is a big problem for others' rights.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:31

I mean, if somebody said ‘I like to think of myself as female’ rather than ‘I identify as female’, would your response be any different?

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:28

Yes, they all mean the same thing though.

Original poster
StillHappy · 07/08/2022 19:20

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:06

What would you prefer it to be instead? It’s not language that I use but I think it’s fairly obvious that it means ‘I want to pretend I’m the opposite sex’.

As per a comment I just made on another thread, I think that the language shift is a deliberate attempt to make it more difficult to argue against certain propositions. If you can't even say what "identify as" means then you can't argue against it, and its very shape-shifting essence means a naive "I'm not saying I real am that" can be adopted at times while at others it can absolutely be used as justification for claiming to be that thing.

A more honest description, if I am reading it right (and accept that I may not be) would be one of these;

Like to think of myself as
Like to try to live as though I am
Enjoy telling myself that I am.

OP posts:
KittenKong · 07/08/2022 19:07

I think of it as ‘pretend’. As the old joke about Virgin and extra virgin olive oil goes ‘you either is or you ain’t’.

Pumperthepumper · 07/08/2022 19:06

What would you prefer it to be instead? It’s not language that I use but I think it’s fairly obvious that it means ‘I want to pretend I’m the opposite sex’.

Speedweed · 07/08/2022 19:06

Interesting question OP.

I identify as X = I know I'm not X in reality, but I believe I know (through my own imagination) what X is, and I feel a kinship with my imaginings such that that I am X.

Nb, that the individual is identifying with their own imaginings so closely is obviously unsurprising.

Also, people who state they are 'non-binary' have by that statement just created a binary between themselves and 'binary' people, so clearly are not really non-binary.

BoredofthisCrap7 · 07/08/2022 19:05

I identify as = look how special and different I am

pylonpal · 07/08/2022 19:03

It’s really interesting that people trying to answer this, are unable to. As you say OP, they are just repeating the phrase in a sentence without explaining what it means. Unless pp really thinks being male is nothing more than a name and clothing choices, which I find hard to believe they actually do.

Luxa · 07/08/2022 19:01

I identify as = I wrongly think I have a choice in whether I am

Fairislefandango · 07/08/2022 18:56

My view is that if you accept the common definition of non-binary, then everyone is.

Absolutely. I wish people would stop deciding that things which are just common-or-garden personality traits, taste preferences or outdated sex-based stereotypes merit classifying as whole separate categories of human. It's such a teenagery thing, this need to constantly define yourself as being part of some new and special group. It's understandable that teenagers do it - teens were ever thus. But that's no reason for adults to indulge it and join in.

dementedpixie · 07/08/2022 18:48

Yeah, both dh and I must be non binary as I cut the grass and he does most of the cooking Wink

pylonpal · 07/08/2022 18:48

Your mistake is thinking that this movement thinks that any of the words or phrases it uses need definitions.

Original poster
StillHappy · 07/08/2022 18:47

AnomalousChallenge · 07/08/2022 18:45

OP your DH isn’t non binary, he’s a man with a variety of interests and skills.

Suggesting he’s non binary because he’s good at cooking and child care reinforces patriarchal stereotypes: “oh he can’t be a man if he does/likes that…”

Other than that, I think your line of questioning is really enlightening.

That was slightly tongue-in-cheek. My view is that if you accept the common definition of non-binary, then everyone is.

OP posts:
AnomalousChallenge · 07/08/2022 18:45

OP your DH isn’t non binary, he’s a man with a variety of interests and skills.

Suggesting he’s non binary because he’s good at cooking and child care reinforces patriarchal stereotypes: “oh he can’t be a man if he does/likes that…”

Other than that, I think your line of questioning is really enlightening.

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